@ClairabusGryff I wouldn't worry about being insensitive to people that don't have the humanity to care about the suffering of an animal just because it isn't human. I'm glad your puppy was okay and he is clearly intelligent enough to learn from his mistakes, which is not something that can be said often enough about humans 😀
@Attrition Perhaps my use of the word distractions muddied the waters. I was using it in a broad sense to mean anything that diverts attention from one thing to another. In my original post, I used the word urgent to describe what I was talking about and later said distraction, but I did mean urgent distractions and not frivolous ones. Thank you for clarifying where the misunderstanding was. 🙂
I just want to thank you both @Attrition and @CeruleanGirl for being able to discuss our different view points on this topic as adult women(??) which maybe an assumption on my part. We all love the game and HP in general and have different vantage points but I certainly respect that we could all come to a similar conclusion while still respecting each other. So thank you for that!
What should be implemented is an inactivity prompt. If you take no action for 15 seconds, you get a prompt with a 15 second timer, forcing you to take an action or be removed from the instance.
This way, if you are a freeloader or otherwise too distracted; you get removed from the instance.
Once a player is removed, the additional spawn count for them should disappear as well (eg. If 5 additional spawns were added for them and they defeated one spawn, 4 should be removed). Any spells that they casted should also be nullified (such as shields and proficiency), to prevent potential exploiting.
This way, if you are a freeloader or otherwise too distracted; you get removed from the instance.
@BenTiger As I already wrote previously, that isn't going to be effective.
Your assumption is that freeloaders are inactive, whereas I assume that freeloaders are people that want to get rewards without putting in the effort (activity) or resources (energy, potions) that justify getting the reward.
So from my perspective, a freeloader could simply use strategic spells to "simulate activity", thereby preventing to be kicked, while still abusing the rest of the team by not putting in any "real" effort.
@Lucoire Your proposal is the best I've seen, by miles. Reimbursing people who spent more energy from the people who spent less is a extremely equitable way to have people share the energy burden of a fortress, while at the same time discouraging free loading by removing the primary benefit.
An unintended consequence might be that people that just don't want to do the fortress might feel empowered to AFK through them knowing that they'll be making the energy contribution at the end, but I think this might be self correcting in that, if too many people do that, there would be generally no Fortress rewards for most people.
I think a reward system could help in multiple ways. The more foes you fight the better reward (including level of foe) and bonus for focusing on foes specific for class. I know the last one would be difficult because we have all played a scenario where I am on my professor and all I get is humans, erklings and acromantulas.
I just did a fortress level with another auror and a Magizoo and the other auror only hexxed and passed focus. This person didn’t expend a single spell energy - just hexxed every 6 seconds and passed focus. I passed this auror focus to queue them to take on a foe but while the Magizoo was taking on the final foe this auror just passed me back my focus I had just given to him/her. Seriously?? We had 10 foes between three players so the Magizoo and I had to each take down 5 foes while this auror just sat there hexing. This is THEFT OF SPELL ENERGY! This is the fourth week in a row this has happened to me. So I know this isn’t a connection issue just someone reaping all the rewards of the players who are actually engaging in the battle. When this has happened before to me I would honestly rather lose the battle to try and teach these people a lesson but I didn’t want the Magizoo to have to take on the foes by themselves.
please please please @HPWUTeam let us know if you plan on doing anything about this free-loader/leaching issue with players. If y’all aren’t going to do anything about it please let us know that as well so we keep bringing it up week after week. I understand that this isn’t a cut and dry issue as to how to address it but there have been several great ideas people have posted on the forum on how to address it. If there was only a way that we knew players were doing this prior to hitting join in the fortress that would make it so much easier. Like a fortress report card or score that we could see. Just really anything at this point.
I hate freeloaders, but I haven't seen any suggestions how they can be punished without having unintended consequences.
What might help is if there are incentives for active play. Give rewards like energies, coins, silver keys, dark detectors, scrolls, field guides, maybe even ministry memos and/or a higher chance of a family fragment drop. Give better rewards in higher chambers and for those who do the most as measured by potions and energies used, damage caused and charms and hexes cast.
I wouldn't care so much about freeloaders if I got a few energies back and a MM out of it knowing that the freeloaders got a family fragment at most.
for once....I agree w lucoire hah, a freeloader might be some1 who forgot and is inactive, or has bugged out, but if not the majority, a large percentage is doing it to get the rewards w/o spending SE and/or potions etc. "max rewards w min. effort/spenditure of resources".
So, if you (devs) put in players having to keep active, those who do it for that reason will do this:
1. cast strategic spells to keep 'active'
2. enter a foe 1st strike it leave
and just like there's discord servers and facebook groups explaining how to freeload w/o 'getting caught' (by the ohter players so they dont leave the lobby when they see your name) i'm sure there'll be groups/pages and servers for measures like this.
I see a few ways to seriously limit freeloaders:
.. diminishing rewards. The more a player doesnt do anything the fewer rewards they'll get. Less challenge and wizarding xp. less family xp from wild returns (fortressing therefore impacting what they do outside of fortressing), no family or challenge drops and so on.
.. players able to vote out 1 or more players who are doing nothing. Require 3 or more votes per player (inside a battle not only in waiting lobby).
.. player(s) able to block other players. so i get a freeloader, after the battle's done i get the rewards screen and after that if there's a player in that group who is not in my friends' list and/or havent played w them before I get a screen with: send friend invite, whitelist and blacklist. send invite is self explanatory, whitelist is "i liked playing w this one but i dont want to send invite, and blacklist is essentially blocked, that player wont be allowed in the same lobby/battle as me again. If a player gets a certain number of whitelists per <time period> (lets say once a month) then that player gets more rewards (higher wxp/fxp/chxp gains, maybe 3-4 red books per rank up instead of 2?. if a player gets a lot of blacklisted then that player loses the right to fort for that same <time period>. And just to avoid potential abuse, allow for an ingame appeal of blacklists option as with account bans.
that should cut down on freeloaders considerably.
Ofc if we are given a way to find ppl from friends' list easily (invites or whatev) the whole point of freeloaders will become moot, as personally i'll never play w randoms ever again. hah
On one hand you say that it's easy to "freeload without being detected" and on the other hand you expect the game (or other players) to detect freeloaders (and vote or block them... or giving them diminished rewards).
I was just in DCV fortress as Magi. Finished one battle and it stuck at zero energy left for opponent. It wouldn't change. I closed and re-entered several times but
Only could get this screen. Lost my lvl5 runestone but also left team without a Magi. I have had it lock several times like this but could always get back in to finish.
@HPW007@HPWUAndres@HPWUcasey there is a lot to this thread, basically people are tired of freeloaders and have some valid suggestions. Mine would be if a player has been inactive in a chamber for a minute (that gives connectivity issues and distractions time to reconnect) they are kicked out, 2 foes leave with them so the others players have a chance to win and the player kicked out loses some spell energy to give consequences to freeloading.
I’m an Auror and I was just in Dark V with 4 other players.
Two MZ‘s, one professor, and another Auror.
One would think that if you’re able to fight in Dark V you would know the “etiquette” of combat!!!
But noooooo!
I was knocked out and NEITHER MZ bothered to revive me even though one of them wasn’t engaged at the time!
None of the other players used used any of their charms on anyone else’s foes except for me. I certainly used mine on the foes they were fighting, gave both MZ’s focus frequently as well as the professor!
Somehow players need to be monitored in fortresses and if they freeload or do not help out, they should get sanctioned.
I have a screenshot of all involved should developers wish to investigate.
@WitchHiker there's a difference between freeloaders and bad teammates. You experienced bad teammates, which is very frustrating when you're a good teammate, but it's not an issue for the developers.
Freeloaders are a different story because they're intentionally exploiting the system to make other people earn their victories. They may be an issue for the developers, there has been lots of discussion by the players with no clear consensus on what should be done, and as per usual not much input on the subject from those responsible for the game.
A further tweak to some suggestions here, if someone takes no actions in a chamber how about splitting the rewards they would have earned (which noone would mind them not getting) between the other players.
It wouldn't stop all issues - especially not bad teammates and active freeloaders - but gives a fair recompense for connection issues - if they happen at the outset at least - effectively giving the remaining players a proportionate outcome to their additional workload (other than the extra from class mismatches etc)
Cierto. Deberían de no darles el bonita. Entran y no quieren combatir. En ocasiones quisiera salir. Pero veo a los demás jugadores y creo que es mala onda dejarlos ya que todos gastamos o posiones. Y más si es una cámara alta. Esa gente que hace eso deberían de no darles el bonus.
Comments
@ClairabusGryff I wouldn't worry about being insensitive to people that don't have the humanity to care about the suffering of an animal just because it isn't human. I'm glad your puppy was okay and he is clearly intelligent enough to learn from his mistakes, which is not something that can be said often enough about humans 😀
@Attrition Perhaps my use of the word distractions muddied the waters. I was using it in a broad sense to mean anything that diverts attention from one thing to another. In my original post, I used the word urgent to describe what I was talking about and later said distraction, but I did mean urgent distractions and not frivolous ones. Thank you for clarifying where the misunderstanding was. 🙂
I just want to thank you both @Attrition and @CeruleanGirl for being able to discuss our different view points on this topic as adult women(??) which maybe an assumption on my part. We all love the game and HP in general and have different vantage points but I certainly respect that we could all come to a similar conclusion while still respecting each other. So thank you for that!
What should be implemented is an inactivity prompt. If you take no action for 15 seconds, you get a prompt with a 15 second timer, forcing you to take an action or be removed from the instance.
This way, if you are a freeloader or otherwise too distracted; you get removed from the instance.
Once a player is removed, the additional spawn count for them should disappear as well (eg. If 5 additional spawns were added for them and they defeated one spawn, 4 should be removed). Any spells that they casted should also be nullified (such as shields and proficiency), to prevent potential exploiting.
This way, if you are a freeloader or otherwise too distracted; you get removed from the instance.
@BenTiger As I already wrote previously, that isn't going to be effective.
Your assumption is that freeloaders are inactive, whereas I assume that freeloaders are people that want to get rewards without putting in the effort (activity) or resources (energy, potions) that justify getting the reward.
So from my perspective, a freeloader could simply use strategic spells to "simulate activity", thereby preventing to be kicked, while still abusing the rest of the team by not putting in any "real" effort.
@Lucoire Your proposal is the best I've seen, by miles. Reimbursing people who spent more energy from the people who spent less is a extremely equitable way to have people share the energy burden of a fortress, while at the same time discouraging free loading by removing the primary benefit.
An unintended consequence might be that people that just don't want to do the fortress might feel empowered to AFK through them knowing that they'll be making the energy contribution at the end, but I think this might be self correcting in that, if too many people do that, there would be generally no Fortress rewards for most people.
I think a reward system could help in multiple ways. The more foes you fight the better reward (including level of foe) and bonus for focusing on foes specific for class. I know the last one would be difficult because we have all played a scenario where I am on my professor and all I get is humans, erklings and acromantulas.
Maybe a way is to see how many foes each player kills at the top of the screen. Just so it makea it obvious.
Maybe of you don't select a foe after 20 seconds then you are kicked out
Maybe you don't get any rewards if you make no kills
I just did a fortress level with another auror and a Magizoo and the other auror only hexxed and passed focus. This person didn’t expend a single spell energy - just hexxed every 6 seconds and passed focus. I passed this auror focus to queue them to take on a foe but while the Magizoo was taking on the final foe this auror just passed me back my focus I had just given to him/her. Seriously?? We had 10 foes between three players so the Magizoo and I had to each take down 5 foes while this auror just sat there hexing. This is THEFT OF SPELL ENERGY! This is the fourth week in a row this has happened to me. So I know this isn’t a connection issue just someone reaping all the rewards of the players who are actually engaging in the battle. When this has happened before to me I would honestly rather lose the battle to try and teach these people a lesson but I didn’t want the Magizoo to have to take on the foes by themselves.
please please please @HPWUTeam let us know if you plan on doing anything about this free-loader/leaching issue with players. If y’all aren’t going to do anything about it please let us know that as well so we keep bringing it up week after week. I understand that this isn’t a cut and dry issue as to how to address it but there have been several great ideas people have posted on the forum on how to address it. If there was only a way that we knew players were doing this prior to hitting join in the fortress that would make it so much easier. Like a fortress report card or score that we could see. Just really anything at this point.
I hate freeloaders, but I haven't seen any suggestions how they can be punished without having unintended consequences.
What might help is if there are incentives for active play. Give rewards like energies, coins, silver keys, dark detectors, scrolls, field guides, maybe even ministry memos and/or a higher chance of a family fragment drop. Give better rewards in higher chambers and for those who do the most as measured by potions and energies used, damage caused and charms and hexes cast.
I wouldn't care so much about freeloaders if I got a few energies back and a MM out of it knowing that the freeloaders got a family fragment at most.
for once....I agree w lucoire hah, a freeloader might be some1 who forgot and is inactive, or has bugged out, but if not the majority, a large percentage is doing it to get the rewards w/o spending SE and/or potions etc. "max rewards w min. effort/spenditure of resources".
So, if you (devs) put in players having to keep active, those who do it for that reason will do this:
1. cast strategic spells to keep 'active'
2. enter a foe 1st strike it leave
and just like there's discord servers and facebook groups explaining how to freeload w/o 'getting caught' (by the ohter players so they dont leave the lobby when they see your name) i'm sure there'll be groups/pages and servers for measures like this.
I see a few ways to seriously limit freeloaders:
.. diminishing rewards. The more a player doesnt do anything the fewer rewards they'll get. Less challenge and wizarding xp. less family xp from wild returns (fortressing therefore impacting what they do outside of fortressing), no family or challenge drops and so on.
.. players able to vote out 1 or more players who are doing nothing. Require 3 or more votes per player (inside a battle not only in waiting lobby).
.. player(s) able to block other players. so i get a freeloader, after the battle's done i get the rewards screen and after that if there's a player in that group who is not in my friends' list and/or havent played w them before I get a screen with: send friend invite, whitelist and blacklist. send invite is self explanatory, whitelist is "i liked playing w this one but i dont want to send invite, and blacklist is essentially blocked, that player wont be allowed in the same lobby/battle as me again. If a player gets a certain number of whitelists per <time period> (lets say once a month) then that player gets more rewards (higher wxp/fxp/chxp gains, maybe 3-4 red books per rank up instead of 2?. if a player gets a lot of blacklisted then that player loses the right to fort for that same <time period>. And just to avoid potential abuse, allow for an ingame appeal of blacklists option as with account bans.
that should cut down on freeloaders considerably.
Ofc if we are given a way to find ppl from friends' list easily (invites or whatev) the whole point of freeloaders will become moot, as personally i'll never play w randoms ever again. hah
@Drakonite
On one hand you say that it's easy to "freeload without being detected" and on the other hand you expect the game (or other players) to detect freeloaders (and vote or block them... or giving them diminished rewards).
You contradict yourself.
I was just in DCV fortress as Magi. Finished one battle and it stuck at zero energy left for opponent. It wouldn't change. I closed and re-entered several times but
Only could get this screen. Lost my lvl5 runestone but also left team without a Magi. I have had it lock several times like this but could always get back in to finish.
@Lucoire you are a good teacher.
@HPW007 @HPWUAndres @HPWUcasey there is a lot to this thread, basically people are tired of freeloaders and have some valid suggestions. Mine would be if a player has been inactive in a chamber for a minute (that gives connectivity issues and distractions time to reconnect) they are kicked out, 2 foes leave with them so the others players have a chance to win and the player kicked out loses some spell energy to give consequences to freeloading.
@hpwulola
How about doing something with this issue:
I’m an Auror and I was just in Dark V with 4 other players.
Two MZ‘s, one professor, and another Auror.
One would think that if you’re able to fight in Dark V you would know the “etiquette” of combat!!!
But noooooo!
I was knocked out and NEITHER MZ bothered to revive me even though one of them wasn’t engaged at the time!
None of the other players used used any of their charms on anyone else’s foes except for me. I certainly used mine on the foes they were fighting, gave both MZ’s focus frequently as well as the professor!
Somehow players need to be monitored in fortresses and if they freeload or do not help out, they should get sanctioned.
I have a screenshot of all involved should developers wish to investigate.
@WitchHiker there's a difference between freeloaders and bad teammates. You experienced bad teammates, which is very frustrating when you're a good teammate, but it's not an issue for the developers.
Freeloaders are a different story because they're intentionally exploiting the system to make other people earn their victories. They may be an issue for the developers, there has been lots of discussion by the players with no clear consensus on what should be done, and as per usual not much input on the subject from those responsible for the game.
A further tweak to some suggestions here, if someone takes no actions in a chamber how about splitting the rewards they would have earned (which noone would mind them not getting) between the other players.
It wouldn't stop all issues - especially not bad teammates and active freeloaders - but gives a fair recompense for connection issues - if they happen at the outset at least - effectively giving the remaining players a proportionate outcome to their additional workload (other than the extra from class mismatches etc)
Cierto. Deberían de no darles el bonita. Entran y no quieren combatir. En ocasiones quisiera salir. Pero veo a los demás jugadores y creo que es mala onda dejarlos ya que todos gastamos o posiones. Y más si es una cámara alta. Esa gente que hace eso deberían de no darles el bonus.