Woooo! Another thread gone septic. I'll jump in! Hey @Dewin99, don't feed the trolls, particularly this one. I'm pretty sure he yells at meteorologists for making it rain. He has no idea how anything works, but can't help trying to mansplain it anyway. The indignant tantrums, the cringe-worthy attempts at humor, and all the rest of it is like watching a train wreck. There's nothing you can do to stop it, so it's better to walk away before you get caught up in it. You reminded me of that a while back, so it seems appropriate to return the favor. 😉
edited December 2019#3528 December, 2019, 07:43 pm.
@Acumen - hmm, are you yourself projecting? or just trolling? ... besides, i only flip the birdie at meteorologists, do you actually yell at them? 😉
——
y’all live in glass houses.
this thread could have an alternate title of i’ll sho.w you my worst and you sho.w me your worst. if that were the case, clearly your worst is worse than mine ... so congratulations to you “winners”.
as to offer of truce, i’ll just smile and say “aren’t you just a peach?” and keep ya in my prayers 😇
@kiheikid Isn't it ironic how the very same person that complained about other people derailing his threads now derailed his own thread by changing it from "Scroll-Comparing" to insulting anyone?
And with that said, Sir, you don't get to accuse ANYONE of throwing stones in a glass house.
i’ve thought about this thread, long and hard ... especially the wise words of my friend @Magpie31 whom i believe to have done nothing wrong yet still apologizes for whatever part she may have played. i apologize to her and i thank her.
in my conversation addressed to @Magpie31 and no one else, conducted in relevant part in german (which is the 2nd language that i learned many years ago in school and have not had occasion to converse in for a long time until now), i used an idiom in reference to no one named in particular, despite the efforts of a certain person baiting me to up the ante. that person took it upon himself to use google translate to translate a discussion in german not addressed to anyone other than specifically my friend, ie not his business, and start the snowball rolling down the hill. so for my part, i apologize for giving offense to “no one in particular” that was described by the german idiom — and will learn the hard lesson that there are no conversations limited to specifically addressed persons here on an internet forum, unlike in the real world where there might be eavesdroppers but no one would reasonably say that an eavesdropper not specifically addressed by a speaker is a proper party to the conversation between that speaker and the specifically named person. in german, we might use a further colorful saying about big ears in reference to an eavesdropper, but i hesitate to give offense now to anyone possibly sensitive about the size of their ears.
i don’t need anyone to accept this apology (and it is in english so no google translate is needed) for it to be valid ... i just give it as is. likewise, anyone else’s proffered truce or olive branch is what it is, whether or not i choose to accept it, or let it be known one way or the other or not at all as to how i choose.
People have noted the lack of private messaging on this forum before. Perhaps if anyone wants so much to have a private conversation, they should exchange details for their favorite messenger platform. That is the only way to have a truly private conversation. Standing in a crowded room and demanding that no one listen to you talk (no matter what language you choose) doesn't seem like a very effective way of keeping your words private.
@MtPollux - true and true, yet be honest and ask yourself how many people in real life go out of their way to google translate a conversation, conducted in a foreign language, to which they were not a part of either as initiator or named addressee ?
as i said, lesson sadly learned that real world societal norms are left at the door of internet forums (at least by certain folks) ... and there really is such a good saying in german for this, but i won’t bother
real world societal norms are left at the door of internet forums (at least by certain folks)
Well, that depends on what context you refer to when it comes to such norms.
A public thread in a forum isn't a private conversation, you're allowed to - and even encouraged - to partake in any and all already existing conversations and you're encouraged to start new conversations (within certain limits - in this Forum the "topics" you're allowed to talk about are restricted by the subcategory of the Forum). In the Real World, the same applies to conferences.
You're expected to behave nicely (certain forms of articulation are blocked by the Forum software) and respectfully (name-calling, trolling and similar unpleasantries are moderated by the Forum staff). In the Real World you're expected to treat any human humanely - with respect and dignity.
In the real world it is considered impolite to be talking a foreign tongue close to others. At least it is here, the place I used to work actually had it listed in the operating procedures.
It was considered fine to talk on the phone to whoever you chose in whatever tongue, however in person... We had a large ethnic group that was the majority at one point, they would be pulled up for rudeness by management.
I had presumed that a few lot of the arguing in this thread was a result of being drunk whilst the posting which is never a good idea. Best not to text whilst drunk also. ;)
@WerewolfChaser Funnily enough, I actually think that is a cultural thing. Growing up in the UK, I was socially taught the same thing - you speak the common tongue.
Over here, I live in a country that officially speaks Thai, work in a school that officially speaks English, live in a place that is predominantly Japanese, and work with colleagues who are linguistically diverse (Filipino, Thai, Pakistani, South African, Russian etc). The Thais have taught us that the done thing here is to speak the language most comfortable to you and your principle addressee(s). So if a Thai teacher is having a conversation at lunch and wants her Thai friend at the other end of the table to be involved, it is okay for her to have the conversation in Thai, even if the rest of the table speaks English. It is considered pravtical, rather than rude. After all, who determines what is "foreign"? Is Thai "foreign" because we are in an English speaking school, or is English "foreign" , given that we are in Thailand? Is Urdu "foreign" because English speakers don't understand, or is English "foreign" because it is not the Pakistani teachers' first language? And when I am chatting with the German teachers in the staff room and an English speaking colleague comes in, do we change to English because she has walked in for a coffee and change back two minutes later? A lot of the time now, we will sit at the lunch table and speak in our own native languages. It is really interesting to sit and have a conversation happening in English, Thai, German and Afrikaans!
I am not trying to be argumentative, I just find it a really interesting philosophical and sociolinguistic concept. As I said, I grew up thinking the same as you, and have been exposed to something very different. I just noticed your caveat "at least it is here". I was about to comment about how limited we all are when it comes to different cultures, but you already got that - the amount of things I assumed were common sense or the polite way that got blown out of the water..!
HOWEVER, back to the point. Generally speaking, most people here are using English and have a decent grasp of it (or can use Google to fill in the blanks). It seems fairly sensible, if not polite, to carry on the existing conversation in the lingua franca, whatever that may be. The odd comment or whatever is fine - I actually love seeing all the Hawaiian phrases dotted through Kiheikid's posts. And if someone posts in another language, there is no harm trying to help or use Google translate to help them. Basically, I don't think the language itself is a problem, I think it is intent, if that makes sense.
@Magpie31 What an interesting environment to find yourself in.
I have been to Thailand (and loved it). I've spent over 3 years travelling the world so am aware of some of the cultural differences.
But you teach in an English speaking school so that would cause me a dilemma. Even though it's English the national language is Thai so that should always be acceptable. English, well okay, it's an English school so fine.
Anything else is fair game I guess unless someone says otherwise. :○
edited December 2019#5529 December, 2019, 05:14 pm.
@Dewin99 - you know very well i google-translated the spanish request for help. are you trying to shoehorn your google-translating my german idiom into the equivalent response by you to a help request (which it wasn’t) or are you just trying to be cute? another lesson learned, no good deed goes unpunished, so in the future no need to respond to help requests in a foreign language since there should be others here capable of so responding and then the likes of you won’t have the ammo to snipe at samaritans trying to help. good grief.
@Magpie31 - you have a future in mediation, if you want one, though i suspect it already is a part of your present job as a teacher, esp. at an international school with multicultural staff and student body. thank you for sharing your experience and another’s perspective. wieder bin ich stolz auf dich.
edited December 2019#5729 December, 2019, 05:27 pm.
@kiheikid Es ist keine Redewendung, es ist eine Beleidigung. Wenn du schon Sprache benutzen möchtest, um andere Leute anzugreifen, dann solltest du etwas sorgfältiger vorgehen.
Dein erster teilweise deutscher Kommentar war ein sarkastisch, arroganter und dein erster komplett deutscher Kommentar war voller Beleidigungen. Und nein, ich brauche Google nicht, um das zu übersetzen oder zu schreiben.
(and here the english translation)
It's not an idiom. It's an insult. If you want to use language to attack others, you should be more meticulous.
Your very first partly-german comment in this thread was snarkily arrogant and your very first fully-german comment was full of insults. And no, I don't need Google to translate or write this.
@kiheikid Thank you. But you realise continuing to address me in German here really isn't helping matters!
@WerewolfChaser Yes, Thai should always be acceptable, although some international schools actually ban all Thai outside of the Thai language classroom! But it is just as normal for me to be sat with our two school nurses, who will be discussing my medication and which dose to give me in Tagalog. Even though it is a discussion about me and I know what dose I need, it just isn't considered rude. We all regularly switch languages. It is just such a different perspective on what is polite and acceptable.
3 years of travelling sounds incredible and I am so glad you loved Thailand. I feel so lucky to live here, I really do.
edited December 2019#6029 December, 2019, 06:03 pm.
@Magpie31 - maybe i’ve been in hawaii too long and take certain things for granted. we’re known for being a melting pot full of polyglots, with multiple conversations in multiple languages (at times even in same conversation or same sentence in multiple languages) going on. the english-only mentality seems so “foreign” to me. a speaker should be free to speak in any language or languages that the speaker chooses. the native hawaiian language was almost lost among at least two generations because its use in schools was discouraged if not outright banned in favor of english, and i hope the hawaiian language renaissance (lead by the kamehameha schools and other hawaiian immersion programs) will continue to grow stronger. subtle or not so subtle discouragement of using any language other than the lingua franca is not our way (any longer).
edited December 2019#6129 December, 2019, 06:04 pm.
@kiheikid And when it comes to translations, you need to be more PRECISE.
nein, stimme zu.
translates to "no, agreed"
Edit:
You don't get to decide what's an insult and what isn't. Comparing someone's face to the visual likeness of an instrument (in this case a wooden flute) is certainly an insult in Germany.
Comments
... So this is a forum thread containing thoughts on how to improve the Community Forum. Interesting, I wouldn't have thought.
In the interest of improving the Community Forum, I apologise for my part, and would like to offer a truce.
If @kiheikid promises to stop insulting people, then I promise to stop calling him out for them.
Woooo! Another thread gone septic. I'll jump in! Hey @Dewin99, don't feed the trolls, particularly this one. I'm pretty sure he yells at meteorologists for making it rain. He has no idea how anything works, but can't help trying to mansplain it anyway. The indignant tantrums, the cringe-worthy attempts at humor, and all the rest of it is like watching a train wreck. There's nothing you can do to stop it, so it's better to walk away before you get caught up in it. You reminded me of that a while back, so it seems appropriate to return the favor. 😉
@Acumen - hmm, are you yourself projecting? or just trolling? ... besides, i only flip the birdie at meteorologists, do you actually yell at them? 😉
——
y’all live in glass houses.
this thread could have an alternate title of i’ll sho.w you my worst and you sho.w me your worst. if that were the case, clearly your worst is worse than mine ... so congratulations to you “winners”.
as to offer of truce, i’ll just smile and say “aren’t you just a peach?” and keep ya in my prayers 😇
edit: why does “s h o w” get asterisked ?
@kiheikid Isn't it ironic how the very same person that complained about other people derailing his threads now derailed his own thread by changing it from "Scroll-Comparing" to insulting anyone?
And with that said, Sir, you don't get to accuse ANYONE of throwing stones in a glass house.
@Lucoire - fine, we all live in glass houses, and certainly yours is one of the grandest!
Dang it, I was too slow. I lose the internet today.
@Acumen - you leave morgan freeman out of this! all i have left is bruce almighty but i have to save that one!
@Lucoire - and kermit too. i’m saving miss piggy for a worthier occasion.
My bad. I'll just go back to walking around and pretending I'm a wizard now, because there's nothing weird about that.
@Acumen - amen
@Acumen Great advice, thanks for reminding me.
@Magpie31 - i hear ya- i really do. And i wish it were true. Unfortunately from A LOT of past experiences- it's not.
I thought peehaps we could give benefit of the doubt once too- but noooooo! A shame that's not the case.
As @Acumen says its best to just walk away. I just wanted to pop back on to let you know that. In any other capacity for me this thread is over.
i’ve thought about this thread, long and hard ... especially the wise words of my friend @Magpie31 whom i believe to have done nothing wrong yet still apologizes for whatever part she may have played. i apologize to her and i thank her.
in my conversation addressed to @Magpie31 and no one else, conducted in relevant part in german (which is the 2nd language that i learned many years ago in school and have not had occasion to converse in for a long time until now), i used an idiom in reference to no one named in particular, despite the efforts of a certain person baiting me to up the ante. that person took it upon himself to use google translate to translate a discussion in german not addressed to anyone other than specifically my friend, ie not his business, and start the snowball rolling down the hill. so for my part, i apologize for giving offense to “no one in particular” that was described by the german idiom — and will learn the hard lesson that there are no conversations limited to specifically addressed persons here on an internet forum, unlike in the real world where there might be eavesdroppers but no one would reasonably say that an eavesdropper not specifically addressed by a speaker is a proper party to the conversation between that speaker and the specifically named person. in german, we might use a further colorful saying about big ears in reference to an eavesdropper, but i hesitate to give offense now to anyone possibly sensitive about the size of their ears.
i don’t need anyone to accept this apology (and it is in english so no google translate is needed) for it to be valid ... i just give it as is. likewise, anyone else’s proffered truce or olive branch is what it is, whether or not i choose to accept it, or let it be known one way or the other or not at all as to how i choose.
Wow, I took yesterday off and look what I missed.
People have noted the lack of private messaging on this forum before. Perhaps if anyone wants so much to have a private conversation, they should exchange details for their favorite messenger platform. That is the only way to have a truly private conversation. Standing in a crowded room and demanding that no one listen to you talk (no matter what language you choose) doesn't seem like a very effective way of keeping your words private.
@MtPollux - true and true, yet be honest and ask yourself how many people in real life go out of their way to google translate a conversation, conducted in a foreign language, to which they were not a part of either as initiator or named addressee ?
as i said, lesson sadly learned that real world societal norms are left at the door of internet forums (at least by certain folks) ... and there really is such a good saying in german for this, but i won’t bother
Well you do for starters:
real world societal norms are left at the door of internet forums (at least by certain folks)
Well, that depends on what context you refer to when it comes to such norms.
A public thread in a forum isn't a private conversation, you're allowed to - and even encouraged - to partake in any and all already existing conversations and you're encouraged to start new conversations (within certain limits - in this Forum the "topics" you're allowed to talk about are restricted by the subcategory of the Forum). In the Real World, the same applies to conferences.
You're expected to behave nicely (certain forms of articulation are blocked by the Forum software) and respectfully (name-calling, trolling and similar unpleasantries are moderated by the Forum staff). In the Real World you're expected to treat any human humanely - with respect and dignity.
In the real world it is considered impolite to be talking a foreign tongue close to others. At least it is here, the place I used to work actually had it listed in the operating procedures.
It was considered fine to talk on the phone to whoever you chose in whatever tongue, however in person... We had a large ethnic group that was the majority at one point, they would be pulled up for rudeness by management.
I had presumed that a few lot of the arguing in this thread was a result of being drunk whilst the posting which is never a good idea. Best not to text whilst drunk also. ;)
@WerewolfChaser Funnily enough, I actually think that is a cultural thing. Growing up in the UK, I was socially taught the same thing - you speak the common tongue.
Over here, I live in a country that officially speaks Thai, work in a school that officially speaks English, live in a place that is predominantly Japanese, and work with colleagues who are linguistically diverse (Filipino, Thai, Pakistani, South African, Russian etc). The Thais have taught us that the done thing here is to speak the language most comfortable to you and your principle addressee(s). So if a Thai teacher is having a conversation at lunch and wants her Thai friend at the other end of the table to be involved, it is okay for her to have the conversation in Thai, even if the rest of the table speaks English. It is considered pravtical, rather than rude. After all, who determines what is "foreign"? Is Thai "foreign" because we are in an English speaking school, or is English "foreign" , given that we are in Thailand? Is Urdu "foreign" because English speakers don't understand, or is English "foreign" because it is not the Pakistani teachers' first language? And when I am chatting with the German teachers in the staff room and an English speaking colleague comes in, do we change to English because she has walked in for a coffee and change back two minutes later? A lot of the time now, we will sit at the lunch table and speak in our own native languages. It is really interesting to sit and have a conversation happening in English, Thai, German and Afrikaans!
I am not trying to be argumentative, I just find it a really interesting philosophical and sociolinguistic concept. As I said, I grew up thinking the same as you, and have been exposed to something very different. I just noticed your caveat "at least it is here". I was about to comment about how limited we all are when it comes to different cultures, but you already got that - the amount of things I assumed were common sense or the polite way that got blown out of the water..!
HOWEVER, back to the point. Generally speaking, most people here are using English and have a decent grasp of it (or can use Google to fill in the blanks). It seems fairly sensible, if not polite, to carry on the existing conversation in the lingua franca, whatever that may be. The odd comment or whatever is fine - I actually love seeing all the Hawaiian phrases dotted through Kiheikid's posts. And if someone posts in another language, there is no harm trying to help or use Google translate to help them. Basically, I don't think the language itself is a problem, I think it is intent, if that makes sense.
@Magpie31 What an interesting environment to find yourself in.
I have been to Thailand (and loved it). I've spent over 3 years travelling the world so am aware of some of the cultural differences.
But you teach in an English speaking school so that would cause me a dilemma. Even though it's English the national language is Thai so that should always be acceptable. English, well okay, it's an English school so fine.
Anything else is fair game I guess unless someone says otherwise. :○
@Dewin99 - you know very well i google-translated the spanish request for help. are you trying to shoehorn your google-translating my german idiom into the equivalent response by you to a help request (which it wasn’t) or are you just trying to be cute? another lesson learned, no good deed goes unpunished, so in the future no need to respond to help requests in a foreign language since there should be others here capable of so responding and then the likes of you won’t have the ammo to snipe at samaritans trying to help. good grief.
@Magpie31 - you have a future in mediation, if you want one, though i suspect it already is a part of your present job as a teacher, esp. at an international school with multicultural staff and student body. thank you for sharing your experience and another’s perspective. wieder bin ich stolz auf dich.
@kiheikid Es ist keine Redewendung, es ist eine Beleidigung. Wenn du schon Sprache benutzen möchtest, um andere Leute anzugreifen, dann solltest du etwas sorgfältiger vorgehen.
Dein erster teilweise deutscher Kommentar war ein sarkastisch, arroganter und dein erster komplett deutscher Kommentar war voller Beleidigungen. Und nein, ich brauche Google nicht, um das zu übersetzen oder zu schreiben.
(and here the english translation)
It's not an idiom. It's an insult. If you want to use language to attack others, you should be more meticulous.
Your very first partly-german comment in this thread was snarkily arrogant and your very first fully-german comment was full of insults. And no, I don't need Google to translate or write this.
@kiheikid Thank you. But you realise continuing to address me in German here really isn't helping matters!
@WerewolfChaser Yes, Thai should always be acceptable, although some international schools actually ban all Thai outside of the Thai language classroom! But it is just as normal for me to be sat with our two school nurses, who will be discussing my medication and which dose to give me in Tagalog. Even though it is a discussion about me and I know what dose I need, it just isn't considered rude. We all regularly switch languages. It is just such a different perspective on what is polite and acceptable.
3 years of travelling sounds incredible and I am so glad you loved Thailand. I feel so lucky to live here, I really do.
@Lucoire - nein, stimme zu. (i disagree)
@Magpie31 - maybe i’ve been in hawaii too long and take certain things for granted. we’re known for being a melting pot full of polyglots, with multiple conversations in multiple languages (at times even in same conversation or same sentence in multiple languages) going on. the english-only mentality seems so “foreign” to me. a speaker should be free to speak in any language or languages that the speaker chooses. the native hawaiian language was almost lost among at least two generations because its use in schools was discouraged if not outright banned in favor of english, and i hope the hawaiian language renaissance (lead by the kamehameha schools and other hawaiian immersion programs) will continue to grow stronger. subtle or not so subtle discouragement of using any language other than the lingua franca is not our way (any longer).
@kiheikid And when it comes to translations, you need to be more PRECISE.
nein, stimme zu.
translates to "no, agreed"
Edit:
You don't get to decide what's an insult and what isn't. Comparing someone's face to the visual likeness of an instrument (in this case a wooden flute) is certainly an insult in Germany.