Will AdventureSync reduce casting and driving?

Osprey1Osprey1 Posts: 515 ✭✭✭✭
in General Questions #1 latest comment 10 September, 2019, 04:50 pm.

The Day of the Dragon was hot here. Probably not hot for people who live in different climates, but for around here it was uncomfortable.

Therefore I was not surprised as I was walking around my local park that I saw the same cars driving through the parking lot slowly during the event, windows up and air conditioner running. But I really was sad to see an older Suburban with only the driver and the passenger idling through the parking lot with the driver playing on at least two phones.

  1. Driving and playing is dangerous. There were numerous studies done around Pokemon Go to prove this and Niantic tells you this when the game starts.
  2. Driving and playing is harmful for the environment. Niantic has teamed up with Leave No Trace and having cars driving around or idling with the AC on is not good.
  3. Driving and playing breaks the social aspects of the game.

If I recall correctly, early in Ingress you couldn't play if you were moving at a speed above a walk. This was later changed supposedly to permit playing as a passenger. I for one would simply prefer if the "I'm a passenger" dialog went away and was replaced with a "you must be walking to play this game" message.

I am curious if AdventureSync will be leveraged to at least discourage low speed driving to unlock portmanteaus.

What are your thoughts? Do you drive and play?

Reply

Comments

  • Osprey1Osprey1 Posts: 515 ✭✭✭✭
    #308 September, 2019, 04:41 pm.

    Yes, in my opinion playing while biking is dangerous for you and those around you. For both biking and jogging I'm assuming that adventuresync will permit credit for distance without allowing the other elements. I wouldn't even have a problem with an auto dining option while traveling above walking speed if the game screen was blocked.

    There is no compelling argument that people should be allowed to play as passengers in cars or on public transportation as both limit the social, health and discovery traits of the Niantic mission statement.

    Niantic has built a product that is disadvantageous for those with mobility issues. We would not ask Schwinn to make every bicycle work for those with mobility issues at the cost of safety for all riders and bystanders.

  • DigitalisDigitalis Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    #408 September, 2019, 04:41 pm.

    in the beginning in ingress there was no speedlock.

    this is one reason we need greenhouses to persist with their random shuffle, where they exist on known drivable routes for resources in the other games they deter driving for resources here. traffic will keep you from being able to successfully interact with the greenhouse.

    if inns went to a similar delay to get energy everyone would quit tomorrow. but they are used to greenhouses now and there isnt much you can do to circumvent it.

    as far as adventure sync goes - you cant make it so you cannot drive it without making it so you cannot walk it. plenty of places everywhere you can just idle along and not impede traffic - that puts you at walk speed in the vehicle. it does not put you where you need to be for point of interest locations in most instances, but it does drive off portkeys.

    i walk at a rate of 6mph on average, and cast on the go one handed now, floating between great and masterful. if they do what you propose then i would lose adventure sync walking around playing pokemon. that would frustrate me a lot. i have not been playing pokemon because potter has no sync, if i lost it at my regular walk speed anyway then whats the point of adding adventure sync in the first place.

  • Osprey1Osprey1 Posts: 515 ✭✭✭✭
    #508 September, 2019, 04:51 pm.

    @Digitalis Hmm, I'm not suggesting that we could stop all driving and playing. I think a significant reduction would be beneficial.

    I also am basing my suggestion off the knowledge that Google Fit does a pretty good job of differentiating between low speed driving and walking through the use of sensors to detect steps.

    So I'm not certain how to interpret your comment because it seems it's based completely upon speed. Is that correct?

  • WerewolfChaserWerewolfChaser Posts: 333 ✭✭✭
    #608 September, 2019, 06:24 pm.

    I am fortunate enough to be a passenger on most of my outings (unless pulling an all nighter for werewolves). I have some mobility issues so my km walked is mostly the car stuck in traffic crawling along or biking.

    I would never play whilst driving. That would be foolish and very dangerous.

    That said our laws on phones while driving (including stopped at traffic lights) are quite harsh. Enough for most not to do it.

    Of course you get idiots everywhere though.

    The laws have been on tv news recently. It is an offence to go through Maccas drive through and pay by tapping your phone as you are in control of a vehicle.

    I would love the equivalent of a go+ or gotcha though. I have purchased 4 go+ and 3 gotchas. I'm somewhat of a heavy user!

  • NotATestNotATest Posts: 4 ✭✭
    #708 September, 2019, 07:39 pm.

    I don't like the idea of relying too heavily on Google Fit/Adventure Sync because I don't like Google to have access to that level of information/data collection (I have Web & App Activity, Location History and Ads Personalization all turned off - basically I've gone through my settings and scrubbed as many permissions as possible, I know they can still collect quite a bit of information but I prefer to give them access to as little as possible). Playing while driving is dangerous so of course it should be restricted but playing as a passenger or having the game on and in the passenger seat while I make the short drive to the store to grab a bit of Portmanteau distance I think isn't asking too much.

  • MCB00TYMCB00TY Posts: 8 ✭✭
    #808 September, 2019, 11:13 pm.

    I dont get out much so playing as a passenger is done a ton for me. I even fuss at hubby to slow down if I see a special foundable. Now for my KM...i have my phone mounted up and will turn it on when I am creeping in slow traffic or in our gated neighborhood only. I have recently started having heart issues and already had back problems so a 10k is not happening. A 2km is hard. I go to our local mall which is a sponsor to walk and get my inns and fortresses lately. I can walk or just sit and play. I dont like limiting the driving part. I have been walking and it thinks I am driving...I am just trying to keep up with my long legged hubby who walks fast. Lol

  • Osprey1Osprey1 Posts: 515 ✭✭✭✭
    #908 September, 2019, 11:30 pm.

    @NotATest that is an interesting take. I know that Google et al have significant amounts of data on me but I also know what it would take to truly be free of tracking (hint: start by not carrying a cell phone.)

    While the principle of activity tracking through sensor based monitoring is sound, implementing it directly in HPWU instead of relying on a third party is not realistic from an economic point of view. I would argue that Niantic and Google already have most of the information available to Google Fit anyway.

    playing as a passenger or having the game on and in the passenger seat while I make the short drive to the store to grab a bit of Portmanteau distance I think isn't asking too much.

    Doesn't this violate the very spirit and indeed the specific rules of the game that you unlock portmanteaus by walking?

    Would you rather keep this behavior knowing it puts lives at risk or limit this behavior and save lives. (Freedom vs safety)

  • Osprey1Osprey1 Posts: 515 ✭✭✭✭
    #1008 September, 2019, 11:38 pm.

    @MCB00TY Please know that I understand when I started this discussion I was proposing ripping the game away from people in your situation. I am aware I'm balancing that against the damage being done via unsafe driving practices and to the environment.

    I would fully support some type of alteration to the game for wizards who wished to register as mobility challenged that would permit them to bypass the portmanteau mechanism, but I'm unsure of what that would look like although there was a nightbus suggestion that could be a start.

    My question here though goes towards what would be possible since, in theory Niantic can discriminate between driving and walking by using Google Fit. Would they be willing to do so to achieve the aforementioned benefits?

  • AcumenAcumen Posts: 466 ✭✭✭✭
    #1109 September, 2019, 12:31 am.

    I think a mobile game is the wrong foundation for building a set of arguments to address whether personal freedom should come before the safety of the group. I doubt the producers of such games are terribly concerned with these matters, with the only exception being any issues that could result in liability. I could see updates to prevent the app from running at all while driving being implemented for that reason alone. However, if the warning messages alone are enough to transfer all liability to the player, then probably not.

  • Osprey1Osprey1 Posts: 515 ✭✭✭✭
    #1209 September, 2019, 12:55 am.

    @Acumen I can think of many counters to your position. Why would Niantic have the mission statement they do, why partner with Leave No Trace, why match donations at Donors Choose and why support numerous other charities including Lumos?

    Niantic didn't think they'd need to take responsibility for trespassing and just had to pay out several million dollars.

    However @NotATest answered the question. It doesn't matter if Niantic could use Fit to differentiate driving from walking, they would not require the use of Fit, at least not at this time.

  • Nekohime2019Nekohime2019 Posts: 2
    #1409 September, 2019, 03:56 am.


  • ZookiTabookiZookiTabooki Posts: 365 ✭✭✭✭
    #1809 September, 2019, 12:23 pm.

    A lot of really good points made here. Great topic, awesome thread!

    @Osprey1 I totally respect your viewpoint. As a guy who worked in a safety sensitive environment most of my career (subway track & structure construction, maintenance and repair), and having lost a couple of buddies to this environment along the way I have a well developed respect for safety, barriers and controls. I am completely against being distracted while operating ANY kind of vehicle.

    To drive the point home, I once had a deer jump across the road in front of me at dusk a few years back. This stupid animal was so freakin' close to my bumper I could see the individual hairs on his hide as he jumped across at lightning speed. I literally only had enough time (I mean milliseconds) to tap my brakes with ninja-like reflexes before he was gone. If I had blinked I would never have known it happened. I couldn't believe I didn't hit him. Any kind of distraction whatsoever at that time would surely have resulted in a different outcome. That's all it takes; a split second for a child to jump out in front of you, and you're done!

    I would ordinarily have no problem if they lowered the speed cap to prevent drive-by gaming while driving except I like being able to play from a vehicle as a passenger. Whether it's mobility or weather or whatever, playing from a vehicle as a passenger has many advantages that are difficult to ignore. I also believe in 'Drivers for Responsible Gaming', my term and I think the current speed cap is well balanced, better than it was for PokeGo.

    My wife knows how I feel about safety. Yet she doesn't have my tempered experience, and so doesn't have the broader perspective I've developed about safety over the years. This used to concern me a lot because she wasn't taking it seriously enough and I couldn't prevent her from driving and gaming, no matter how I drove the point home, every single day. No matter how well I articulate my point, free will is a real thing, and people are gonna do what they want. All we can do is encourage people to be responsible if not for their own safety, then for the safety of others.

    I have since developed a route for my wife that will take her from one cluster of Inns to another. She drives distraction free from one cluster to another and pulls over to a complete stop and parked before she picks up her phone. This is actually working well for her as she also plays Pokemon Go and can capitalize on her stops. Transit is the one thing I like to promote over driving (other than walking of course). Lowering our carbon footprint is becoming mainstream (though hardly fast enough) and I find it really is the best option for riding and gaming.

    @Digitalis made a lot of really good points that lead me to believe the current speed cap is good as it is. It may not be perfect but I think Niantic has clearly put some thought into this and they have found the right balance without limiting our options.

  • D1eD1eD1eD1eD1eD1e Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited September 9 #1909 September, 2019, 02:30 pm.

    I have two children with mobility issues who love this game. Unless I have magical powers to push two wheel chairs the only way they can both play is by me driving them around.

    I couldn’t care less about limiting speed to unlock portmanteaus, I put their devices in my bag with HPWU open every morning and evening when I walked the dog.

    Speed limiting the ability to visit inns or catch foundables would render the game unplayable for my kids. It is not the game developers role to punish everyone because of a select few idiots. As long as they have implemented reasonable safe guards that’s enough. I believe the current limitations are fine as is.

  • DubiousAffairsDubiousAffairs Posts: 110 ✭✭✭
    #2009 September, 2019, 02:52 pm.

    It would help if the game recorded speeds properly. Once more today I received that notification. No, I wasn't even a passenger, not biking either, just walking.

  • FionnahFionnah Posts: 2 ✭✭
    #2209 September, 2019, 04:21 pm.

    I will admit, I am one of those that drive to unlock my portkeys. In my defense I take the sleep off of my phone, throw my phone in my passenger seat and crawl around my apartment complex for a couple laps. When the heat index is over 100° it's hard to find the energy to do the trek on foot. I really wish we could have adventure sync. As it stands, I walk about 5mi a day while I'm at work and a little less on my days off. So would I drive less, if at all, if I had adventure sync? Yes. Chances are I'd only 'drive' if I was legitimately the passenger. So when will we be allowed adventure sync? I don't know.

  • JulieJubzJulieJubz Posts: 307 ✭✭✭
    #2309 September, 2019, 05:28 pm.

    I totally use the game when I bike and when I'm on a car. BUT! Here's how I do it.

    While biking: I just keep the game open but put it in my bag, that way I'm just paying attention to biking alone. I also bike super slow and stop from time to time to check on the game. I use the bike mostly so I can hit the 4 different greenhouses around me, and to help with portkeys. So going extremely slow is nice.

    On the car: ONLY as a passenger. Never ever otherwise. (well I also don't have a drivers licence so not like I could drive and play haha). But yeah definitely agree that with driving it's an absolute no no.

  • Drkphantom76Drkphantom76 Posts: 0
    #2509 September, 2019, 11:27 pm.

    I do not agree, as soon as you stop people from driving, you effectively kill off many handicapped people. One of my wife and my best friends is paralyzed from the waist down, we met her playing pogo, because she was able to drive and do it. Out pogo group has another person who is missing a leg, again he was able to play pogo effectively and competitively because he can drive, I have a friend I've know for about 35 years, he has had multiple sweat glands removed because of infections, he can not be out of the air conditioning, I just got him started playing wizards because he can be in his car. It's actually very narrow minded to say ( everyone has to walk to play wizards ) when there are many people that can not be out in the heat or are restricted in there ability to walk, or can't walk at all. And what about the many elderly that can't take the heat or can't walk very far at all. Should all of these people just give up and die. Please stop trying to give Niantic a reason to take Joy from the people that need it most !!

  • KeyFlame60KeyFlame60 Posts: 4 ✭✭
    #2610 September, 2019, 12:00 am.

    I regularly drive my mother around to play this game. She can not walk much at all as even standing in the kitchen to make dinner is a real chore.

    So in the spirit of the safety issue, this is how we play.

    We both load our phones. Any time I am driving, mom watches both screens. Then, when something good comes up she tells me to pull over. I park the car, set the e-brake and then allow myself to play.

    This allows us to spend quality time together without our heat sensitivities and her disability keeping us from playing.

    Stop trying to fix what isn't broken. Niantic has covered their own rear. Otherwise, live and let live.

    KeyFlame60

  • LipstickLaceyLipstickLacey Posts: 1 ✭✭
    #2710 September, 2019, 12:05 am.

    "You must be walking to play this game" would be super ableist, and I wouldn't be able to play anymore.

  • Pixiewillow73Pixiewillow73 Posts: 1
    #2810 September, 2019, 01:39 am.

    I am having a problem with the game saying I'm going to fast when I am walking. I have it on when I'm in to store shopping and it will say in going to fast.

  • CaeleonCaeleon Posts: 92 ✭✭
    #2910 September, 2019, 06:00 am.

    Honestly, I feel it's not Niantic's place to enforce the law. You should know that you can't drive and play. It's your choice whether you follow the law or not. And if you get caught, you deal with the consequences of said choice.

  • MerryCricketMerryCricket Posts: 1
    #3010 September, 2019, 04:50 pm.

    This post smacks of abilism. When I had multiple hip surgeries last year, I could only play the game while sitting in my car.

    Not everyone can. I'm not one for playing the game while driving, but I also won't leave others out because of a physical disability.

  • Arinn405Arinn405 Posts: 0
    #3112 September, 2019, 03:21 pm.

    Not everyone has the luxury of living somewhere where the temperatures are safe to be out walking.

    Not everyone has the luxury of living in a location where the neighborhood itself is safe to be out walking.

    And not everyone has the luxury or ability to be out walking, period.

    One of the best things about Niantic games is their ability to bring together people who might not otherwise ever meet or speak. A big part of this community is working together to ensure those who aren’t able, or as able, can still play. We take turns being the designated driver, load up our vehicles with other players and drive to raids together, participate in events and community days together. We HELP each other.

    What you’re suggesting would not only eliminate the ability to play for a lot of people, but it would kill a large part of the social and community aspects of the game as well.

    Anyone irresponsible enough to try to play while driving is taking that risk and posing that risk of their own accord and will eventually be left to bear the responsibility for their actions should something go wrong. They’re also the same people who text while driving and talk while driving. Niantic isn’t responsible for babysitting these people.

    No, idling cars are not good for the environment, but the majority of vehicles belching pollution into our atmosphere that have no relation to Niantic games far outweigh the negligible number who do.

    Adventure sync would go a long way toward reducing some of this “driving” and playing. Niantic should have included it from the start if they had learned anything from PoGo, but they didn’t. Give them time. It took a while for PoGo to hit a sweet spot and balance, HPWU will need time as well.

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