How can you leave players who have lose 50 or 70 stars because of you and give them a gift ? I don't really understand how decision are take. Why didn't you not decide that the first time ? the really problem was your second fix.
I ll contact support for a refund and uninstall the game.
Maybe it possible to send the information to a higher level using the contact form on Niantic Website ?
I am absolutely baffled by the sheer number of flags in this thread. Flags are to report posts, usually for being spam or abuse.
There *are* some posts which fit this description, but there seem to be a lot of posts - such as @rocketj 's post - that are getting flagged for no reason.
A flag isn' t a dislike button or downvote, folks. This ain't Reddit.
FYI I have been hands-on developing Oracle and now Snowflake database applications since 1993 so I do know what I am talking about, alternatively I have left a trail of destruction across the 38 predominantly blue chip financial institutions I have worked at over the past 27 years
I empathize with this as a former (recovering?) game dev.
Looks to me like you’re spot-on with the occasional db snapshots (nightlies, maybe?) and no transaction records. Penny-wise and pound-foolish to trust this setup for the game’s core mechanic.
Until Lola relays an incident post-mortem that explicitly confirms they’re now fully logging transient data, players should instead:
1) trust Occam’s [honed shaving implement word filtered by the forum software] again and
2) assume that it’s business as usual and
3) expect similar problems to reoccur as they refactor & rearchitech the game’s codebase (recently announced).
I wonder if the evidently missing bit or boolean for star placement is client-authoritative? No, that can’t be if Niantic are able to sync gamestate across devices for a given player. I wonder why they can’t flip that value to true for affected players.
Ah well. Just a game provided by a corporation legally obligated to deliver maximum value to shareholders at minimum operating cost.
I am extremely curious to see how Niantic put hard numbers to how much they assess our ire and data loss to be “worth” in terms of tomorrow’s announced offset virtual items/currency gift.
We shall soon learn what they really think about us and this incident in measurable terms! As a research professor, I really enjoy this part.
@rocketj@MrSciGuy, however, the case here is that some people already paid, had the food on their plate and were happy dining away when someone from staff passed by with a blowtorch and burned it right in front of them. Sadly no one seems to make that connection.
@MissyWuwu - Your pseudo code makes a lot of assumptions which may or may not be valid
Frankly I don’t have the enthusiasm for speculation. I have given what I consider a logical explanation given what little evidence there is and what can reasonably extrapolated
@OriginalCaruso As part of the “fan base with low post count who turn up to complain”, I would say that is an unfair statement to make. Are those with a higher post count better than those with a lower post count?
I didn’t even know this forum existed until the second fragment issue. We had Fazes in Discord and in Reddit keeping us updated with issues and events there, and since she’s been gone I have since been pointed in the direction of this forum as this seems to be the only channel of communication right now.
Those with low post count have all come to this forum specifically because they have been affected by the fragment fiasco.
@OriginalCaruso - your response in post #285 above is typical of the pack mentality among certain high post count members who anoint themselves to be some inner circle and then proceed to invalidate newcomers, or even long time forum members with relatively post counts, with a different point of view ... as though only your viewpoint matters and that when you say it is time to move on, then everyone else should do too. newsflash: your opinion is just that, an opinion ... not dogma.
OriginalCaruso, I’m on Reddit and someone in the group I play with pointed me to the thread where they were asking people to say if they’d lost stuff. I have too many places I need to keep up with already, pardon me for not knowing about this forum before.
Thanks for the update... and letting us know that our months worth of hard work and effort, that your fixes removed, is rewarded with a nearly useless store pack that does not even start to compare to our losses.
If that store pack is supposed to provide some sort of closure, I'm confused at what affected parties you believe are going to be in any way appeased. When I was reading the announcement with friends, I thought that meant we were getting 10 potion expansions, for a total increase in vault size of 100 spaces. It was pointed out to make the 10x likely refers to the size of a single upgrade. @hpwulola Is this correct? If so, I'll take it, I guess. But quite honestly you may as well release no gift pack at all. I've accepted that I'm not getting my Dumbledores back and am moving on. Please do better in the future.
I was told by the in game support to come here to see what actions would be talken to fix the original issue of the 2.13 release.
When something is decided and I do not agree, I increase my low post count (@OriginalCaruso )
I also try to inform, make suggestions and add thumbs up on the posts I agree with.
My main grief from the start is the unfairness of the current fragment migration and related issues. I am afraid another free gift will not be enough to correct this.
I will continue to follow these threads, post when necessary and move on once I feel the issue is resolved.
I wish I didn't follow the advice "don't place or prestige until the update is out" on May 7th... The people I used to play with fall into 2 categories:
they were compensated a lot by the recent fix, now they don't have much to do in the game
others like me, who feel abandoned because they saw the warning message on May 7th and are not getting fragments back
The compensation is so terrible that I dun even mind everyone is getting it, because it simply doesn't make a difference to my vault. This is such a big insult as compared to the amount that we have lost.
Oh look at it, this is that slap to the face I was expecting. Cool. 🤦 This “gift” doesn’t even begin to cover up all the losses I’ve had in my registries, but what do I know, I’m just annoying complainer with low count on forum posts, who is never happy with anything, and who just kept whining for justice after the devs destroyed gore part of their game...
I guess I’ll take what I get, try to move on, and never trust another future update to be working properly. But I will definitely not forget this fiasco, and how poorly it was handled.
1- Communication was always lacking, and still is.
2- Some people lost their stuff for good, and some lost even more with the first/second "fixes". Some people did get their stuff back, and are happy with it. Those that are happy or didn't mind what happened should, however, keep in mind that a situation such as the one transpired this last month can and will likely repeat itself at some point down the road. And then it might be their turn to take the hit. Everyone should be now aware of the flawed testing procedures, and keep in mind that bugs unforeseen by these tests may damage your account, and most likely your lost progress won't be returned.
3- Lack of proper testing, troubleshooting, proper backups, are bad signs which raise a big red flag over a software or company. Such is the case atm.
4- People can still complain, but from the looks of it there truly won't be anything done anymore which would bring actual justice to those who lost stuff. What people can and should do is request refunds, sue if there is the need for it, tell everyone and then some about what transpired here, and what kind of response the company has given. Friends, forums, reddit, discord, you name it. Let the world know. This was unacceptable practice and, were it not "just a game", would mean a really big hit, if not the end of a company.
5- Some may say "yea, but they (niantic) can learn from their mistakes, and get better, etc". Sure, they can, but will they? Not all people wish to/should remain being test subjects for constant breakage (which could then be broken further and not repaired).
6- Higher or lower number of forum posts does not legitimate or illegitimate anyone's pleas. People will complain as is their right to do so, following severe problems generated on dev's side, and not on players' side.
7- A make-good "compensation" given to all will not right the wrongs which were not fixed. It serves, however, as a means to keep people which are still willing to play, engaged, or to feel less disheartened. To those complaining that people who didn't suffer anything or had none or few losses in the end are also getting the same make-good "compensation", your beef is with niantic, not with your fellow players. See item 4. The reason you guys are upset is because you loved the game and invested big both time and money-wise, and were broken by bad practices from the company. Not from your fellow players.
8- The comparison of the situation with a burnt food severely underrates the problem. It's more akin to having let's say, a 17500$ deposit you earned over a few months of work, then losing 500$ due to some system bug, then losing 7000$ when they tried to fix it, then the bank saying "Yeah, well, since we typically break instead or fixing, we will just leave it be, here, take 50$ as make-good compensation". The values fluctuate for each person, obviously, but the idea is there..
I guess they tried to balance the store pack so that those who didn’t lose anything aren’t seeing massive gains and it helps those who were affected. Of course, not anywhere near what those who lost progress actually need to get back going again in the game, but there we are and I doubt they’re going to change the contents.
I am curious though @hpwulola, why those runestone families over others, and why not all the runestone families (even if they were lower level stones)?
I should quit, but I don't know if I can let go right now when everything else in the world sucks so bad. But I will say this... I was one of the paying customers that supported this game. I will never give you another dime. And I will go through the pointless steps of requesting a refund for the hundreds of dollars I spent here. In fact, I intend to take it as high as possible and be a real pain about it. Not because I believe there's the slightest chance of success, but just to make you deal with me.
5 Potent Exstimulo = about 1/3rd of an Exstimulo crate = 267 gold
5 Lvl 5 Oddities Runestones = no equivalent market value, but let's say each level 5 runestone is worth a whole bag of level 1s = 200 gold
5 Lvl 5 Legends of Hogwarts Runestones = no equivalent market value, but let's say each level 5 runestone is worth a whole bag of level 1s = 200 gold
5 Lvl 5 Magizoology Runestones = no equivalent market value, but let's say each level 5 runestone is worth a whole bag of level 1s = 200 gold
Total offset gift virtual value = 1897 virtual currency = US$18.06 using Niantic's reference of 2,100 gold for US$19.99.
Total offset gift virtual value = 1897 virtual currency = $$15.81 using Niantic's reference of 21,000 gold for US$99.99.
[If you agree with the assumptions embedded above, of course!]
In non-math terms, Niantic are expressing how much mollifying each aggrieved player is worth to the corporation, about $18 optimistically per "pair of eyeballs" to use the old web marketing lingo.
My [limited, fallible] interpretation of this exercise: If you're a casual player counting on whales to subsidize your play and keep the servers alive, this is a mighty generous third pleasant surprise! The offset value is basically lots of free advancement a third time in about 30 days. Noice!
If you're a dedicated player affected by multiple waves of losses & have been spending money as a function of that dedication, the offset is as you'd guess, pretty smol. That's the way the transactional data-loss cookie crumbles. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Thank you for playing and paying and keeping the hamsters on the server's wheels!
For me personally, I've heretofore spent just shy of $200, or about $US16 on average per month since release. So I'll regain about a month of maybe 4-6 worth of para-progress wiped away previously? Less than some others have gotten soaked for, so that's good.
Thank you, @hpwulola, for relaying news as fast as you could. I do appreciate you individually.
Kindest regards to everyone, remember the human behind the other keyboard, and keep spending on this game proportionate to your trust level of the corporation's demonstrated data practices.
Edit: all things in proportion! Niantic's estimated annual revenue is US$0.795 Billion per year (on $4BB total valuation), or $US1,238,318 per employee. So, you and I are each "virtually receiving" 0.00000227% of Niantic's financial intake as a virtual offset this go-round. Source: https://growjo.com/company/Niantic. Something something rounding error of a rounding error.
Comments
@hpwulola
How can you leave players who have lose 50 or 70 stars because of you and give them a gift ? I don't really understand how decision are take. Why didn't you not decide that the first time ? the really problem was your second fix.
I ll contact support for a refund and uninstall the game.
Maybe it possible to send the information to a higher level using the contact form on Niantic Website ?
I am absolutely baffled by the sheer number of flags in this thread. Flags are to report posts, usually for being spam or abuse.
There *are* some posts which fit this description, but there seem to be a lot of posts - such as @rocketj 's post - that are getting flagged for no reason.
A flag isn' t a dislike button or downvote, folks. This ain't Reddit.
@OriginalCaruso said:
FYI I have been hands-on developing Oracle and now Snowflake database applications since 1993 so I do know what I am talking about, alternatively I have left a trail of destruction across the 38 predominantly blue chip financial institutions I have worked at over the past 27 years
I empathize with this as a former (recovering?) game dev.
Looks to me like you’re spot-on with the occasional db snapshots (nightlies, maybe?) and no transaction records. Penny-wise and pound-foolish to trust this setup for the game’s core mechanic.
Until Lola relays an incident post-mortem that explicitly confirms they’re now fully logging transient data, players should instead:
1) trust Occam’s [honed shaving implement word filtered by the forum software] again and
2) assume that it’s business as usual and
3) expect similar problems to reoccur as they refactor & rearchitech the game’s codebase (recently announced).
I wonder if the evidently missing bit or boolean for star placement is client-authoritative? No, that can’t be if Niantic are able to sync gamestate across devices for a given player. I wonder why they can’t flip that value to true for affected players.
Ah well. Just a game provided by a corporation legally obligated to deliver maximum value to shareholders at minimum operating cost.
I am extremely curious to see how Niantic put hard numbers to how much they assess our ire and data loss to be “worth” in terms of tomorrow’s announced offset virtual items/currency gift.
We shall soon learn what they really think about us and this incident in measurable terms! As a research professor, I really enjoy this part.
@rocketj @MrSciGuy, however, the case here is that some people already paid, had the food on their plate and were happy dining away when someone from staff passed by with a blowtorch and burned it right in front of them. Sadly no one seems to make that connection.
@OriginalCaruso
Maybe my English is too weak. Let me try to explain.
We know (or hope) that there is a snapshot from before the fix, right?
We know the current state, right?
for each current player
for each foundable
if there is currently no green star
if current prestige = prestige on snapshot & there is a green star on snapshot
Set green star on current
endif
endif
endfor
endfor
Can you please tell me, where in this I would need transaction data?
I am still speaking of the green stars. As far as I remember there was no try to fix that issue.
@rocketj so you are telling us, protests are utterly useless? Strange thing to say these days
@MissyWuwu - Your pseudo code makes a lot of assumptions which may or may not be valid
Frankly I don’t have the enthusiasm for speculation. I have given what I consider a logical explanation given what little evidence there is and what can reasonably extrapolated
@pedapeda
Yo forgot that they offer every guest a napkin afterwards.
@OriginalCaruso As part of the “fan base with low post count who turn up to complain”, I would say that is an unfair statement to make. Are those with a higher post count better than those with a lower post count?
I didn’t even know this forum existed until the second fragment issue. We had Fazes in Discord and in Reddit keeping us updated with issues and events there, and since she’s been gone I have since been pointed in the direction of this forum as this seems to be the only channel of communication right now.
Those with low post count have all come to this forum specifically because they have been affected by the fragment fiasco.
@OriginalCaruso - your response in post #285 above is typical of the pack mentality among certain high post count members who anoint themselves to be some inner circle and then proceed to invalidate newcomers, or even long time forum members with relatively post counts, with a different point of view ... as though only your viewpoint matters and that when you say it is time to move on, then everyone else should do too. newsflash: your opinion is just that, an opinion ... not dogma.
Hi all! Here are the contents in the storepack
Is this a joke?
Cool, those runestones will get me at most 45 of the hundreds/thousands of lost challenge fragments. Filling out my paperwork now...
Thanks @hpwulola for the info. I'm not really sure what I expected the pack to contain, but this is decent.
thank you @hpwulola
OriginalCaruso, I’m on Reddit and someone in the group I play with pointed me to the thread where they were asking people to say if they’d lost stuff. I have too many places I need to keep up with already, pardon me for not knowing about this forum before.
@hpwulola
Thanks for the update... and letting us know that our months worth of hard work and effort, that your fixes removed, is rewarded with a nearly useless store pack that does not even start to compare to our losses.
If that store pack is supposed to provide some sort of closure, I'm confused at what affected parties you believe are going to be in any way appeased. When I was reading the announcement with friends, I thought that meant we were getting 10 potion expansions, for a total increase in vault size of 100 spaces. It was pointed out to make the 10x likely refers to the size of a single upgrade. @hpwulola Is this correct? If so, I'll take it, I guess. But quite honestly you may as well release no gift pack at all. I've accepted that I'm not getting my Dumbledores back and am moving on. Please do better in the future.
I don’t believe I lost anything but feel bad for those who did.
Happy to get some extra items and space.
I was told by the in game support to come here to see what actions would be talken to fix the original issue of the 2.13 release.
When something is decided and I do not agree, I increase my low post count (@OriginalCaruso )
I also try to inform, make suggestions and add thumbs up on the posts I agree with.
My main grief from the start is the unfairness of the current fragment migration and related issues. I am afraid another free gift will not be enough to correct this.
I will continue to follow these threads, post when necessary and move on once I feel the issue is resolved.
wow.... storage and runes that aren't even the ones for the coming events... this is just sooooo useful. really really compensates deleted fragments.
could be funny, except it isn't.
I wish I didn't follow the advice "don't place or prestige until the update is out" on May 7th... The people I used to play with fall into 2 categories:
Both are playing much, much less.
The compensation is so terrible that I dun even mind everyone is getting it, because it simply doesn't make a difference to my vault. This is such a big insult as compared to the amount that we have lost.
Enjoy the free pack guys!
Chalk it up to incompetence of the game devs @9threefour . If they could identify who was screwed, they would have been able to fix it...
The MZ runestone looks like the Heart of the Ocean though
Oh look at it, this is that slap to the face I was expecting. Cool. 🤦 This “gift” doesn’t even begin to cover up all the losses I’ve had in my registries, but what do I know, I’m just annoying complainer with low count on forum posts, who is never happy with anything, and who just kept whining for justice after the devs destroyed gore part of their game...
I guess I’ll take what I get, try to move on, and never trust another future update to be working properly. But I will definitely not forget this fiasco, and how poorly it was handled.
Just some considerations:
1- Communication was always lacking, and still is.
2- Some people lost their stuff for good, and some lost even more with the first/second "fixes". Some people did get their stuff back, and are happy with it. Those that are happy or didn't mind what happened should, however, keep in mind that a situation such as the one transpired this last month can and will likely repeat itself at some point down the road. And then it might be their turn to take the hit. Everyone should be now aware of the flawed testing procedures, and keep in mind that bugs unforeseen by these tests may damage your account, and most likely your lost progress won't be returned.
3- Lack of proper testing, troubleshooting, proper backups, are bad signs which raise a big red flag over a software or company. Such is the case atm.
4- People can still complain, but from the looks of it there truly won't be anything done anymore which would bring actual justice to those who lost stuff. What people can and should do is request refunds, sue if there is the need for it, tell everyone and then some about what transpired here, and what kind of response the company has given. Friends, forums, reddit, discord, you name it. Let the world know. This was unacceptable practice and, were it not "just a game", would mean a really big hit, if not the end of a company.
5- Some may say "yea, but they (niantic) can learn from their mistakes, and get better, etc". Sure, they can, but will they? Not all people wish to/should remain being test subjects for constant breakage (which could then be broken further and not repaired).
6- Higher or lower number of forum posts does not legitimate or illegitimate anyone's pleas. People will complain as is their right to do so, following severe problems generated on dev's side, and not on players' side.
7- A make-good "compensation" given to all will not right the wrongs which were not fixed. It serves, however, as a means to keep people which are still willing to play, engaged, or to feel less disheartened. To those complaining that people who didn't suffer anything or had none or few losses in the end are also getting the same make-good "compensation", your beef is with niantic, not with your fellow players. See item 4. The reason you guys are upset is because you loved the game and invested big both time and money-wise, and were broken by bad practices from the company. Not from your fellow players.
8- The comparison of the situation with a burnt food severely underrates the problem. It's more akin to having let's say, a 17500$ deposit you earned over a few months of work, then losing 500$ due to some system bug, then losing 7000$ when they tried to fix it, then the bank saying "Yeah, well, since we typically break instead or fixing, we will just leave it be, here, take 50$ as make-good compensation". The values fluctuate for each person, obviously, but the idea is there..
@Hidrazona I'm clapping. thank you for the clear head layout. HPWU should learn communication skills with you.
I guess they tried to balance the store pack so that those who didn’t lose anything aren’t seeing massive gains and it helps those who were affected. Of course, not anywhere near what those who lost progress actually need to get back going again in the game, but there we are and I doubt they’re going to change the contents.
I am curious though @hpwulola, why those runestone families over others, and why not all the runestone families (even if they were lower level stones)?
This absolutely feels like a slap in the face.
I should quit, but I don't know if I can let go right now when everything else in the world sucks so bad. But I will say this... I was one of the paying customers that supported this game. I will never give you another dime. And I will go through the pointless steps of requesting a refund for the hundreds of dollars I spent here. In fact, I intend to take it as high as possible and be a real pain about it. Not because I believe there's the slightest chance of success, but just to make you deal with me.
What comes around, goes around.
Time for the power of math!
Total offset gift virtual value = 1897 virtual currency = US$18.06 using Niantic's reference of 2,100 gold for US$19.99.
Total offset gift virtual value = 1897 virtual currency = $$15.81 using Niantic's reference of 21,000 gold for US$99.99.
[If you agree with the assumptions embedded above, of course!]
In non-math terms, Niantic are expressing how much mollifying each aggrieved player is worth to the corporation, about $18 optimistically per "pair of eyeballs" to use the old web marketing lingo.
My [limited, fallible] interpretation of this exercise: If you're a casual player counting on whales to subsidize your play and keep the servers alive, this is a mighty generous third pleasant surprise! The offset value is basically lots of free advancement a third time in about 30 days. Noice!
If you're a dedicated player affected by multiple waves of losses & have been spending money as a function of that dedication, the offset is as you'd guess, pretty smol. That's the way the transactional data-loss cookie crumbles. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Thank you for playing and paying and keeping the hamsters on the server's wheels!
For me personally, I've heretofore spent just shy of $200, or about $US16 on average per month since release. So I'll regain about a month of maybe 4-6 worth of para-progress wiped away previously? Less than some others have gotten soaked for, so that's good.
Thank you, @hpwulola, for relaying news as fast as you could. I do appreciate you individually.
Kindest regards to everyone, remember the human behind the other keyboard, and keep spending on this game proportionate to your trust level of the corporation's demonstrated data practices.
Edit: all things in proportion! Niantic's estimated annual revenue is US$0.795 Billion per year (on $4BB total valuation), or $US1,238,318 per employee. So, you and I are each "virtually receiving" 0.00000227% of Niantic's financial intake as a virtual offset this go-round. Source: https://growjo.com/company/Niantic. Something something rounding error of a rounding error.