Thanks for bringing this back on track @Skaana. Your words are appreciated.
I was only advocating for rewarding TEAM play. Not sure how that spiraled beyond that.
Plain and simple, the way things are right now aren’t working super well. People either aren’t contributing (hence this entire post in the first place) or don’t contribute properly (either on purpose or by lack of knowledge through no fault of their own. This is why I have previously advocated for an in-game tutorial on team play). So if they’re not working great as-is, I was just offering suggestions to try to encourage better team play. Perfect solution? Perhaps not. But clearly things can be improved from where they are currently.
@FireWanderer I’ve made similar suggestions about having in-game tutorials on team fortressing. Most people prior to the Knight Bus had only soloed. How are they expected to learn? Not everyone ventures to this forum or Discord or YouTube. An in-game solution is the answer here.
1000% agree @MrSciGuy (I feel like we've written each other's posts before! 😂)
The other place where it would be useful would be for when you wanted to roll out a brand new feature and didn't want people complaining that "oh no I wasted my [in game thing] because I [chose something I wish I hadn't]!"
Not that might be a major issue in the near future or anything.
Hahaha yes, perhaps on how to properly place images using the green star?
Hopefully they’re learning from that and are giving us some information ahead of time to learn about the new lessons and skills.
There's also the possibility (hopefully, likelihood?) that they'll use these new SOS tasks to move the story along as well.
I guess a lot of people haven't played PUG groups or raids in other MMOs. It's always problematic and always will be. At least we don't have to roll for loot everytime.
But it's far better than not being able to play in a group. Especially in this game where finding other physical players is so hard.
I feel it's made ten times worse because you can't communicate (yeah I'm on discord, but I mean in game). How much of a quality of life improvement would it be to be able to send a one line message after the battle - a Thanks, or a GG, or even 'I'm doing Dark 3 next, anyone want to come' . Also friends lists. Would be great to be able to add people after the battle. An ignore list, or at least the ability to add a note that showed against a player name in the lobby would be useful, although I can see reasons Niantic would not want to do this.
Lots of options but at the end of the day the Knight Bus is great. How many people were stuck for months not being able to complete the SOS task through lack of local players. That's a 10 minute job now. I really think a lot of the issues are due to people playing solo for nearly a year, now jumping into groups because there's no choice in the lobby and not knowing what to do for the best.
I really think a lot of the issues are due to people playing solo for nearly a year, now jumping into groups because there's no choice in the lobby and not knowing what to do for the best.
And unless they actively seek out help (here, Youtube, blogs, etc.) they have no way to learn "the proper way" to do teams. Previously, if they met up with someone physically, they could get suggestions. Now, they just roll with what they know and there's no way to say "there's a better way."
This is why @MrSciGuy and I have (independently) asked for training rooms, so people can learn/be shown how to better interact with their teammates. Either that or a limited chat feature (preset phrases).
And if it is any consolation, @Whitehorsematt, I just had a "fully accredited" Auror (999311 score) completely sit out a fight (Forest 1 (been trying to get that last International Cooperation medallion for awhile now) - AMPP, yeah we were short one). Wasn't until we had one Death Eater left (we had to clean out about 7) with about 25% health "Maeusezach..." decided to attach a Confusion and Deterioration hex on said Death Eater and then gave each of us 1 focus. There was about 2 minutes left on the clock.
We then all sat there including said Auror. If not for the other professor (Staben) deciding to finish it out with 15 seconds to go, it would have been a loss. I was actually at that point hoping for a loss. I was fine losing my runestone.
So, it sucks, but not much I can do other than give you all a head's up.
Just did a Dark Chamber V and had 5 players in it and then 3 who had level 1 runestones dropped out right when we entered so there were only 2 of us. Wasn't gonna waste a level 5 runestone so we tried. I lost so many potions I'm pissed. They need to do something about this ASAP. If you go into a chamber you shouldn't be able to leave!
There is still a chance to win this round eventhough there is only one Prof in the chamber. The proficiency came out late, spiders are being confused and, one of the auror kept dying. Like it or not we need to invest potion to win this round. We lost this round with last 2 werewolf foes.
Can we have function button to be added for improvement? Like button to request Proficiency, Confuse, Bravery, Focus ,Revive or a button to click when having Network problem ? It's very frustrating for experienced wizard to lost DC5 that they know, they can win with the correct game play.
I have errors all the time, foe already engaged-thing happens multiple times per chamber and sometimes I feel I look like that leech, when in fact i am trying to get the foes but can't. So the foe count doesn't always tell everything. I think I have slower connection than most, i still don't think I shouldn't play at all because of that. Also when I start by sharing my focus usually someone has already taken my de:s even if I'm only auror and there are many of their own foes, so I go punch some of them while waiting more and those going in coming outs take time also. So the system should somehow be based on activity as whole.
I agree that it is irritating, AND that experienced players should have patience with newer players. However, I have seen some wizards do this repeatedly. Join a chamber with 5 wizards and contribute nothing for more than one consecutive challenge. That is when I wish there was a kick out option, or challenge chat. With a challenge chat, we could help the inexperienced players. My thoughts.
Yeah, we need need some chat in challenges badly! Either voice chat or text chat (or both).
Almost all games with massive online gameplay have it. There is no way to coordinate otherwise. And you need to coordinate your efforts in challenges.
To magiz I could just say - hey, don't heal me, I have lots of potions. Please use elite charm instead. Obviously I would probably say it shorter 😉
As magiz I could say - don't drink potions I'll revive you when you die.
Auror could say to professor - giving you focus for proficiency charm.
As a professor - I just wish I could know WHICH Auror shared focus with me so I could send them a defense protection shield. At the beginning of the game when focus is low I might just get one Auror send me focus and I have no idea which one to reciprocate. If there were a graphic that would indicate where the transaction came from that would help fair team play on the Knight bus. Also I’m sure Aurors would like to know which Professor sent Defense charms and Proficiency charms so they can be accountable for their use of borrowed focus.
As both a professor and auror, I fully endorse a visual to see who's handing out buffs/focus. Would really reward players doing their job.
regarding this issue, please see my suggestion in this thread for classifying individual players.
My apologies to the 2 wizards in my chamber 5. Got the irkling and dropped my phone! By the time I fished it out from under the couch battle was over. I hate freeloaders but poop happens. I was not quick enough to catch their names. Again my apologies!
I don't believe any `voting system` or any other system handled by the players will solve this issue. You will just create trolls and more frustration using such a system.
Instead of punishing, you could think of an automated rewarding system, based on spells cast and foes killed. But there are some pitfalls. If done incorrectly, you may have players rush in killing foes and ignore supporting the other players.
A reward system will motivate players to perform better, but in the end not fully solve the issue.
I wouldn't mind some kind of spell refunding system in place (or remove spell energy costs in fortress fights at all!!). Because if you are being active in a fortress fight you are currently being punished by paying the most spell energy, while the freeloaders only get the benefits.
Furthermore, the in battle UI could use a do-over. There's no way to tell who casted which spell, who needs focus, who has which spell on them, etc. etc. The colored squares are more puzzling than informative.
p.s. sorry for the unstructured rant ;)
A reward system will motivate players to perform better
A reward system will encourage players to focus on the rewards (instead of the team play). That will result in egoism, as people will inevitably try to maximise their own reward even if doing so would deny other honest players their reward.
@Cartaphilus i like and applaud your idea of a reward based system on top of rewards we already receive. How about every charm you use you get points for them which of course would encourage team play. So as an auror every time I pass focus to a professor I get 3 points and then when I hex any foe I get 2 points and then when I do the hex where I take off stamina from a foe every 6 seconds I get one point. Magizoo’s could get 5 points for casting the beast protection and every time they revive a teammate they get 2 points etc.
What do you think? At the end of the battle a screen comes up showing the team how everyone scored. Then maybe there could be a running average displayed when you are in the lobby so teammates can see how well you play and assist the team? Thoughts?
So as a further reward if you score in a pre-determined range you get 1-10 SE depending on the level you are playing in...
This would further encourage engagement from the whole player base. For instance I just did a tower level with a total of five aurors. The last foe left was a spider and I was the only one hexing the spider to take off 3 stamina points every six seconds. Why didn’t the other three players help this auror out with the awful spider?
Making the Points Focus-Based means that I could maximize my score without defeating a single foe - without casting a single spellenergy-consuming spell. I could simply chug one or two Strong Invigoration potions, cast a few strategic Spells and would get full score... while waiting for the others to actually defeat enemies.
Also, if the Group-Spells would give points, the one casting it would deny the other player of the same profession points - thereby rewarding AAAPM-Groups and punishing any composition with more than 1 Professor or more than 1 Magizoologist.
And last but not least, it would encourage Players to priorize the Strategic-Spell and Focus-Lessons and then go into the most difficult chambers. When critisized for that, they could argue that by having their Strategic Spells max'ed they bring everything needed for the challenge since the reward system encourages only strategic spells - not actually defeating enemies.
It goes without saying that players get X amount of points for taking down foes. On top of the point system listed above.
Rewarding Enemy-Kills with points requires the spawn-distribution to depend on the group composition, which it currently isn't.
Anecdote: I've had Groups where not even a single beast spawned despite me (a Magizoologist) being in the group.
Also, who gets the points:
Or would the points be split between all who damaged the enemy?
Would the "first-strike, then flee" strategy of Aurors be encouraged or discouraged?
What about Elite Enemies, would they grant extra points - encouraging greed even more than it already does?
Would the points granted be different for different professions (eg. Magizoologists getting more points for Beasts, fewer for Curiosities)?
Would points scale with Rank of the Enemy?
And what about cases when the Enemy dies as result of a curse instead of a direct attack spell? Would it be possible to "steal" kills from other professions as Auror - by casting Bat-Bogey at just the right time?
There's so much unclear about this proposition - and so much complexity involved - that I'm absolutely certain that it will either be extremely bug-riddled or exploitable or both.
Radically different proposition:
At the end of the challenge, the spell-energy used by all players is averaged... and depending on whether the group members used more or less energy than that average they are either reimbursed or lose additional energy.
Meaning: someone who didn't use any Spell-Energy would still "lose" it... while the one who used the most energy would get lots of energy back.
The point system is not beneficial to all, it's beneficial for people with really high speed connection, lots of potions and spell energy capacity and of course potions and SE and people who have great RNG luck and get the foes they need. I truly don't think anykind of point system is good or even needed. As someone wrote earlier, it should be everyone working towards a common goal, not everyone working to get better rewards than others. So i think the current all or nothing is the only way to go and be fair. I have no solution on how to deal with the leeches, except maybe somekind of scoreboard with battles done/enemies beaten/buffs and hexes used-kind of thing, where you could check out people, although that would not help when you go in battle with people, but maybe with remembering who the freeloaders are. Also it would be nice if we got colored hexes and buffs, even if that doesn't relate directly to the topic. But I think it should be all for common goal.
With the point system my greedy **** would be going to D5 and doing only bat bogey every 6 seconds and getting a point for each as others would be struggling to finish the foes 😂 (not really, I actually like fighting)
I would LOVE THIS!
I think at the end of fortress challenge, there should be a summary of actions/foes battled for each player before the rewards screen.
And if you see someone that obviously don't contribute at all no dmg or spell casts to other, you simply hit the report button.
If the consensus from all others in the same bus are the same (meaning everyone except the player reported), then that player gets 1 warning point.
If that player reaches 3 points, knight bus will disappear for that player for say 7 days.
Once the 7 days have passed, it will re-appear and the warning point resets to 0.
Also warning point will be reset after, say, 7 days if that player doesn't get any warning point within the last 7 days.
This should discourage freeloaders who simply do nothing and just wait to get rewards.
I love the idea but I would not require all other players in the lobby to vote against the leacher for him to get warning points. The majority of other players votes in the bus should be enough to get him 1 warning point and if more than one player votes against, it should count for at least half a point.
That is because I suspect that some players will just not vote at all.
another option would be:
1 vote = 0 points
2 votes = 0.5 points
3 votes = 0.75 points
4 votes = 1 point
Voting/reward system taken care of by players will not work... you will have trolls, players that won't care and won't vote, missclicks, misinterpretations, etc. etc.