HOW TO STOP Players who don't contribute in chambers.

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  • KodokmagKodokmag Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6219 June, 2020, 11:41 pm.

    With lengthy waiting time, i usually waits until 15-20 seconds. Because sometimes at that time everyone shows up.

    Well, always ready to tap leave anytime in case of bail out players. In Dark chambers its almost a must to disband team if its unbalanced (in my experience though).

  • Stina1AStina1A Posts: 114 ✭✭✭
    #6420 June, 2020, 06:06 am.

    It would be helpful to know the “lock” time where the timer considers you still in even if you back out, so you could drop out without inadvertently increasing the foes for those who remain in.

    I like to wait until 25-30 seconds to make my choice because often the chamber suddenly fills up right around then due to the lengthy delay some people experience with choosing runestones and we’re good to go. But I would never want to drop out late enough that the game still counted me as a player.

    Also do not believe publicly shaming is the solution - beyond that I believe it’s not fitting to guidelines on the board, we can’t know what’s going on on the other side of a screen, especially as people are still reporting getting kicked out of chambers or somehow ending up in their own chamber, etc. I think I’ve voiced this here before or in another thread - as much as it frustrates me too and I want a solution, I don’t want players who are really trying but experiencing technical issues to be unfairly punished. Trying to assume the best of people until there is a way to distinguish game error vs “mooching.”

  • EmeraldOcelotEmeraldOcelot Posts: 2 ✭✭
    #6622 June, 2020, 10:32 pm.

    This makes me want to quit this game on an almost daily basis. It happens so often. And in lower chambers it's not that big a deal, but the game developers set us up for losing significant runestones, potions and spell energy when they made it too easy for lower level players to get entry to the dark chambers. I'm sick and tired of filling up their focus, reviving them and-or watching them enter with 4 or 5 level runes tomes, elevating the difficulty of play, then not contributing at all. I and the rest of the team in D4 and D5 the past few weeks have lost repeatedly due to lurkers and shirkers, as well as newbies who have no business in that chamber, esp. entering w/a high runestone. I'll say it again: 1/ Player level badges for all players entering a chamber so others can assess risk. 2/ Add a "poke" ability so players can prod an inactive player and, if 2 or more do so, eject them, or the game should auto eject players not participating. 3/ Points/rewards per foe action regardless of whether the play ends in defeat. Otherwise why play in upper level chambers when you're set up to fail and pay for the privilege? 4/ There absolutely should be a level 14 min. per player to entry. It's too easy to unlock high levels by using groups to win the previous level when you've done nothing to earn it yourself. Huge flaw in the game IMO. Badly thought out. Fix it. Most players know their skills and help one another. These bad apples are ruining it for the rest.

  • EmeraldOcelotEmeraldOcelot Posts: 2 ✭✭
    #6722 June, 2020, 11:00 pm.

    Also, maybe someone can tell me what the highest available profession level is? I'm also a Magizoo (though also a L13 A and L11 P since I ran out of M lessons) . My Pt 1 lessons ended at L 15 (but for some reason shows 14 outside of the professions area). Anyone know when they're going to add L2 to the profession lessons? I must have a million scrolls sitting there.


    @VoiceMaster I'm also a Magizoo and I do the same things (pop out of a battle to check on others, revive, add focus, see who's struggling and who's helping others). Sometimes when I see there are a few weaker players I run through 3-4 foes with a strong e potion to get them down to the weaker halfway point before going back to my foes. That seems to help a lot when players are trying.


    I actually thought the D chambers were going to be something different and special for advanced players, not just a harder version of the others. It would have been cool if they had a storyline and one chamber to the next, players unfolded the story. The game gets pretty repetitious otherwise. We buy stickers via spell energy, potions and stones, essentially. It doesn't really go anywhere. Maybe that's why it's so frustrating when the D chambers are trolled and abused. I dunno.

  • ainajoyainajoy Posts: 1
    #6924 June, 2020, 07:23 am.

    Hoy me ha pasado que en un desafio con otro jugador, (tengo su nombre grabado para no volver a hacer equipo con el) yo he empezado y cuando llevaba 2 contrincantes derrotados me he dado cuenta que el no movia ni participaba. He dado tiempo y nada, no hacia nada. Asi que al final he dejado pasar todo el tiempo y perdido mi runa. No permito que esa clase de gente se aproveche😡

  • MagobyteMagobyte Posts: 34 ✭✭
    #7024 June, 2020, 09:08 am.

    @ainajoy me alegra ver que en el foro también hay compañeros hispanoparlantes. Por tus expresiones parece que eres de España.

    Si quieres agrégame como amigo en el juego: 5764 9093 8326

    Con un poco de suerte al compartir franja horaria coincidiremos en algún desafío.

    Saludos.

  • VoiceMasterVoiceMaster Posts: 168 ✭✭✭
    #7124 June, 2020, 10:53 pm.

    Yes I will not publicly shame people. I was just very frustrating in the moment. I would like to call out people who are good though.

  • BormacskaBormacska Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020 #7224 June, 2020, 11:00 pm.
  • NavikNavik Posts: 54 ✭✭✭
    #7309 July, 2020, 06:48 am.

    Just wanted to pipe in on an idea I had regarding disengaged teammates. Perhaps having players rate each other can be too easily abused, but what if there is an engagement calculation done on the backend... It could take into account foe engagements, hexs being cast, even screen taps. Maybe players can have a 7 day rolling engagement meter which would go above or below neutral depending on their actions.


    I also feel that if a player is marked as being disengaged and/or drops (dropping could also be due to a bug), the remaining players should either get a power boost, or reward boost. I am sure it is impossible to change the amount of spawns after a fortress has started.

  • Burnturrek619Burnturrek619 Posts: 58 ✭✭
    edited July 2020 #7512 July, 2020, 04:05 am.

    This feature wasn't even supposed to be in the game. Its an AR game and requires people to walk around and communicate with people in real life. However, COVID changed everything and here we r playing from home now. Its high time we get the in-game chat.

    Post edited by Burnturrek619 on
  • Fairytree13Fairytree13 Posts: 23 ✭✭
    edited July 2020 #7712 July, 2020, 05:11 pm.

    It would be great if rewards for finishing a battle were only given to those who participated. I've participated in several (as many have) where one does nothing. I just finished one where an auror did nothing even though there were lots of dark wizards. Didn't even use hexes. I know there are a lot of reasons for this. Some understandable some not so much and some out of our control. I just think the rewards should be only for those participating.

    Post edited by Fairytree13 on
  • FireWandererFireWanderer Posts: 112 ✭✭✭
    #7813 July, 2020, 07:18 pm.

    @Skaana

    It worked. I rooted out the ones who fled right before the entrance timer ended


    Out of curiosity, what do you consider "right before the entrance timer?" 5 seconds? 20 seconds? 30 seconds?


    Generally, if I have only one other person and there's 30 seconds to go, I'll bail out. Likewise, if I have two others but not a full set of professions covered with 20 seconds.


    I just ask because what you might feel as unfair might be another person trying to maximize their XP.


    @Fairytree13

    It would be great if rewards for finishing a battle were only given to those who participated.


    How much participation? I had a chamber awhile back where I waiting for the wolves and pixies to pop (thanks RNG), got enough focus from my teammates to cast Team Proficiency Charm, saw a wolf, clicked on it ... and my phone died. Commence mad scramble to find my charging cable, plug in, wait for phone to load back in, enter password, start up WU, anxiously tap phone, re-enter chamber ... and find their down to the last 2 foes, both engaged.


    Don't get me wrong, I felt really bad that I left them in the lurch, but it wasn't intentional. In your evaluation, should I have been rewarded or not? I did what I was supposed to do (didn't engage non-proficiency foes) and helped the team out with TPC, but because I missed my battery low signal, I didn't attack anything (I think I did at least hex one of the foes).


    Not all "failed to participate" actions are bad players. At the same time, should we punish professors who just the focus given to them for hexing their own foes as opposed to helping the team? Where's the draw line?


    Don't get me wrong, I kvetch about Aurors who don't pass focus (or only once ... c'mon folks, if you really want to help us help the team, we need at least 6 (it costs 22 total focus for TPC + 5 shields)) or other players who still don't understand the green arrow/red arrow for who they target. But where do we draw the line? And I think that's where the devs are caught. What is appropriate participation?

  • LucoireLucoire Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7913 July, 2020, 09:02 pm.

    How much participation?

    @FireWanderer

    It's not just a question of "how much", but also "which kind of" participation?

    Where would y'all draw the line?

    • Potion Usage?
    • SE-Usage?
    • Focus-Usage?
    • Defeated Enemies?
    • Strategic-Spell-Usage?
    • Damage dealt?


    What's considered "Participation" and how much of that is considered "worthy of a reward"?

  • LucoireLucoire Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8113 July, 2020, 09:28 pm.

    @MrSciGuy

    But wouldn't that undermine the spirit of collaboration by making people compete over who "supports" the most?


    As noble as that Idea might sound on paper, I see it as an incentive to exploit your team-members to maximize your own CXP - Aurors would then rather use their focus themselves rather than pushing it to Professors for Shields/Charms or to Magizoologists for Charm/Heal/Revive.

  • Fairytree13Fairytree13 Posts: 23 ✭✭
    #8213 July, 2020, 09:35 pm.

    @FireWanderer ....I agree. Not all who don't participate are doing it on purpose. I imagine that's the case more than not. I imagine the game can tell if you did anything in the game...even if it was only to throw some focus or hex. I've been kicked out before only to find myself at the end without contributing and it felt wrong to share in the rewards

  • MrSciGuyMrSciGuy Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8313 July, 2020, 09:36 pm.

    I didn’t provide an exhaustive list @Lucoire, just a few examples. Of course aurors would be rewarded for passing focus! What I’m describing would reward good TEAM play, not just play.


    An auror wouldn’t get rewarded for confusing a death eater, but they would for confusing a werewolf. They wouldn’t get rewarded for passing focus back and forth to another auror, but they would for passing it to a magizoo or professor. Do you see what I’m getting at?

  • LucoireLucoire Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8413 July, 2020, 09:43 pm.

    @MrSciGuy

    Yes, you're trying to encourage competition, "outdoing each other" - the natural enemy of collaboration.


    As I previously tried to describe, as long as people are encouraged to think primarily about THEMSELVES and how they can maximize THEIR OWN reward, they won't work together towards a common goal. And that's what your suggestion does: encourage people to min-max their own investment and reward.


    The current system rewards only one thing: Success.

    If the team AS A WHOLE succeeds, they're all rewarded. If the team AS A WHOLE fails, none of them are rewarded. That's equality / equal opportunity as it should be.

  • MrSciGuyMrSciGuy Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8513 July, 2020, 10:05 pm.

    I think you’re completely missing my point @Lucoire 🤦🏼‍♂️

  • LucoireLucoire Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020 #8613 July, 2020, 10:23 pm.

    @MrSciGuy

    And I'm thinking the same about you.


    I understand that you're trying to encourage players to think of what good they can do for each other, but the way in which you try to achieve that will cause people to think "What should I do to maximize my reward" rather than" What can I do to make this team perform as smoothly as possible".


    Players should be encouraged to work towards the COMMON GOAL, something that can only ever work if achieving that common goal will reward everyone equally. Rewarding people unequally (regardless by which criteria) will cause envy/jealousy or might even make people consider themselves treated unfairly - as our innate greed will inevitably make us believe that we deserve more than what we receive.

  • MrSciGuyMrSciGuy Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8713 July, 2020, 11:08 pm.

    I see what you’re saying as well. Do you have a better solution to this problem? I feel like there’s no easy way to check all the boxes here.

  • LucoireLucoire Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8814 July, 2020, 12:26 am.

    @MrSciGuy

    Hm. We could argue all day and night about "feature" and how they can be exploited... and we would never be done.


    That's why I'd like to approach this differently. I would rather ask what base principles the game should follow, what behavior the game should encourage and discourage. I'd rather talk about the GOAL, that we (as a community) want to agree on and work towards... before thinking about what's the best way to reach that goal.


    So, I'll try to describe my mindset on that regard:


    Inclusivity

    Everyone should be able to play the game, regardless of their health, their wealth, their heritage, their beliefs, their identity. In terms of disabilities - be it color blindness or other visual impairments, sensoric or motoric handicaps - that will be difficult given that the game is built around certain mechanics that these people will inevitably struggle with BUT the lockdown has shown that they can be overcome creatively via the Knight-Bus and the TTD.

    In terms of wealth - or more specifically, the access to certain technologies (be it modern smartphones or stable, high-speed connectivity) - the game should try to provide offers for as many people and regions as possible. And the "Portmanteau-Gyroscope"-Issue is a good example how that can be achieved.


    But all of those issues also have a "shadow-aspect":

    Freedom from discrimination


    Now what does that mean?

    Discrimination, simply put, means unjustly distributed privilages/rewards. "Justice" is difficult to measure in that regard as we all lack the omniscience required to assess it.


    Is it "fair" that rural players struggle more with their traces, ingredients and energy than urban players?

    Is it "fair" that people with limited access to the technologies required for HPWU are more likely to be penalized by "disconnects" and thereby loss of Spell-Energy / runestones?

    Is it "fair" that certain people can get Fortress-Rewards without contributing while others have to compensate for their lack of participation?

    Is it "fair" that people lose the energy they put into freeing traces when it escapes due to "speed-lock" / "unstable GPS"?



    I'd like to answer that with a counter-question:

    • Would you rather make the "Justice"-System so strict that each and every offender is penalized - even if it means that innocent people might be disciplined as well?
    • Would you rather make the "Justice"-System so feeble that no innocent person is ever penalized - even if that means that some offenders go free?


    Personally, I believe that the second variant is the better one - as the first one focussed too much on "punishment" than "justice". Admitedly, the game doesn't follow that principle as much as I'd like it to but I can see that the devs at least tried to pursue the same sentiment.

  • SkaanaSkaana Posts: 92 ✭✭✭
    #8914 July, 2020, 01:35 am.

    WOW.

    You two are going hammer and tongs on this , @Lucoire and @MrSciGuy !


    I'll back both of you up for a second. Excellent points made by both.

    My take is this.


    When we are engaging in the Wizarding Challenge, as a TEAM, the "Im in this for myself attitude",( that the game encourages during solo play in ALL its features and facets) needs to change.


    The essence and value of teamwork is working together to succeed at achieving a common goal.

    As the GREAT basketball coach John Wooden said, " DO not mistake activity for achievement " .

    Now let that sink in for a moment please......

    Perhaps, when we are in a Tower and we realize that bloke is selfish ,and not helping, we can act in a giving/teaching way.

    Pass that Protection charm ANYWAY, when they're struggling, and see what happens...


    If this story is really at its core about L O V E , then we know what it is we should do.

    Lily Potter

    Albus Dumbledore

    Severus Snape

    and many others died willingly to protect something. Are WE willing to protect our teammates, NO MATTER WHAT?


    It is great and important that some things are causing passion! If the developers are following this, we can influence the path.


    As an aside, it does make me wonder about the wisdom of having a BRAG BOARD.

  • SkaanaSkaana Posts: 92 ✭✭✭
    #9014 July, 2020, 01:55 am.

    Hello @FireWanderer , and thanks for the feedback!

    In ref to your question, I generally take a dim view of players who exit in 10 seconds or less, to the timer ending.

    IT JUST SUCKS!

    If I choose to leave, its because: (1) dont like the composition of 4 Aurors in a dark 3, (2) Demand to have Magi when Im using Dark arts or Oddities runes, (3)see some behavior I dont like, such as flashing to join and then un-join (4) other flagging behaviors.


    AND I leave with AMPLE time (30 seconds left). And if I REALLY need to do that CHAMBER.... I wait and pop back in.

    Very often when I do this, others who been waiting with me, return with me on the the timer reset.

    Timer reset? Yes dear. DO NOT RETURN to the room to soon..... Or you'll be alone with 3 seconds to go.

    Wait until you see a big ZERO where the number of players in the room mark is found. Then its safe to return.


    The next hurdle to see is how the team works. Ive had many occasions where players have FLED well after the Challenge had started.

    A notable one was noted in another post. I had 5 and then I was ALONE, with minutes left and a handful of nasties to deal with.

    Ah. The stories I could tell.....

    I want to hear yours


    Friend me... and Ill be on the lookout

    My name is the same here and on the game. 4275 7835 8102

    And anybody else is welcome..... ive got space for 78 more


    @MrSciGuy im playing right now!

  • FireWandererFireWanderer Posts: 112 ✭✭✭
    #9114 July, 2020, 02:08 am.

    And this debate is indicative of some of the problems the developers face.


    Would I love to have "better" players (Aurors who pass focus, Profs who actively charm teammates, Magis who actively revive and heal) all the time? Absolutely!


    My best suggestion (made previously) would be a "training room" to teach players a bit more about their particular spells, etiquette, etc. You could have a general room and the ones for the specific professions. No runestones needed (likewise no challenge fragments gained), but maybe a small reward (1-2 red spell books?) for completing the set.


    Does it solve the problem of a player just signing up and then doing nothing? No, but that sort of player falls into one of two categories: 1. Technical difficulties, or 2. Selfish. There's not a lot you can do to handle #2 without inadvertently penalizing someone who had problems due to little/no fault of their own. However, it does allow a more communal solution of saying "hey, I know we aren't playing together in person right now, but here's some ways to help in towers that will also help you."

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