The Free Rider Problem



  • Magpie31Magpie31 Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6227 April, 2020, 01:47 pm.

    @Punkyfins I am also fairly new to team play, but I think it depends on the balance of players and the chamber level. In dark chambers, aurors need a shield. Lower chambers with a decent profession balance, probably doesn't matter which order.

    Happy to listen to other opinions!

    (48 words)

  • ClairabusGryffClairabusGryff Posts: 988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6327 April, 2020, 01:53 pm.

    @kiheikid I am a level 43 magizoo and the first day I fortressed with other people was the day the Knight Bus rolled out and I had no clue how to play with other professions. So the person you are talking about could have been someone like me. I have since figured out after reading hours of posts on the different professions. I have played about an average of 20 battles a day mainly in the higher levels and did three back to back D5. I only experienced what I considered to be a POSSIBLE free loader one time. But there could have been a host of other things going on as well. So who knows. I believe there is a complete opportunity to go to a battle and maybe only take one foe out spending like 2-3 SE and get a ton of rewards for it. Until the HPWU team is able to put those people in a different fortress where they play with other beginners or something like that I would rather have access to still fortress at home. It is what it is. For so long we have wanted the opportunity to fortress from home and now we have it so continually complaining about this issue makes the players (us) look bad IMO. Imagine you just started playing the game and come onto the forum to learn how to play the Knight Bus and see all these negative posts about this new and amazing opportunity the team presented us with. I am just grateful the team gave us this opportunity.

    So it is that 1% of people that don’t play by the rules and do their fair share that cause the issues. But ultimately I like to think that one day they will board the Karma Bus instead of the Knight Bus. But that is how I chose to personally look at the situation.

  • FireNightingaleFireNightingale Posts: 105 ✭✭✭
    #6527 April, 2020, 02:25 pm.

    Yeah, life happens. I'd just like to see some kind of thing put in place eventually to prevent deliberate abuse. Say, player free-rides a chamber X number of times then they wind up in a free-riding specific fortress server and have to be active for Y number of battles in order to win their way back to the main ones.

    However, I guess the simplest thing is to boot them from the battle if they fail to engage a foe within a set amount of time (allowing time to buff others/debuff mobs/pop potions/etc.), just give them the standard failure rewards & either reduce mobs still to spawn for the other players or boost their XP rewards by a share of what would have gone to the inactive player.

  • PunkyfinsPunkyfins Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #6627 April, 2020, 03:09 pm.

    Key here is "deliberate". You just can't know that. However I can follow you inasmuch that players who are inactive during the entire battle from beginning to end forfeit their rewards. It would be worth it for saving Larry the lizard...

    (Edited: same as what I assume players get when they bail.)

  • ClairabusGryffClairabusGryff Posts: 988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6727 April, 2020, 03:43 pm.

    Well said @FireNightingale and @Punkyfins !! I like the idea if they enter a fortress and are inactive then they get kicked out after a certain amount of time and loose their runestone and the game will automatically reduce the number of foes after they are kicked out. I imagine that would require quite a bit of programming but the HPWU team is awesome and can achieve anything!!

  • OwlxOwlx Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6827 April, 2020, 03:53 pm.

    @Punkyfins in answer to you call to other professors. Before quarantine I played regularly in a huge local group. For everyone to understand the level of strategy experience -Discord membership 325+, regular saturday fortress group average of 25 to 45 people for several hours. All levels and ages of players. So we have crazy mix of groups. Prefered group is AAPPM. But that not always possible. It's great fun and I miss it.

    The knight bus wonderful fun. It's a learning curve for everyone including veteran team players we are used to lots of communication.

    Have noted an increase in A passing focus! YAY!

    My thoughts for strategies on Proficiency vs shield

    Lower chambers (anything under Forest 4) I usually cast Proficiency 1st unless.

    • Only one A no M shield A 1st -(there is a keal bug. if a player is knocked out they can get knocked out of fortress)
    • Only one M shield M 1st they can't heal if they get knocked out Yes Maxed Magi have so much stamina that they may not need it but we can't know profession level

    And others are asking about dex hex. I'll add my thoughts in a different post to avoid TL;DR

  • PunkyfinsPunkyfins Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    #6927 April, 2020, 04:05 pm.

    Thanks a bunch @Owlx. That's incredibly helpful. :)

  • OwlxOwlx Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #7027 April, 2020, 04:05 pm.

    I'm also in favor of game ejecting inactive players with no reward given and loss of runestone!

    I would add I think the "ejected" play should get a pop of from warning from either Hermione as the Minister of Magic or Harry Potter as the Head of Aurors explaining the reason for ejection. This creates a teaching moment and players know it was not a bug or error that caused the issue.

    If it was a game error that causes ejection player can request runestone refund in game help. If and only if game can see error.

    edited to correct grammar

  • OwlxOwlx Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7127 April, 2020, 04:30 pm.

    Thoughts on DEX hexes

    for all chambers cast only after Proficiency and shields if needs

    Dex hex - I throw for the team and not to "claim dibs" on a foe

    Throwing Dex for the team 5 star then 4 star foes in this order Spiders, Wolves (Puppies) Erklings then Dark wizards

    reasoning is those foes have defense breach and are the toughest and take to most spell energy

    towards the end of the game dex hex anything not hex that you have free focus for. Free focus= from foes defeated not potions

  • PunkyfinsPunkyfins Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    #7227 April, 2020, 04:40 pm.

    Addendum to @Owlx or extra focus given by Aurors.

  • OwlxOwlx Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7327 April, 2020, 05:04 pm.

    @Punkyfins thank you! i did forget that. a lot of Aurors are still learning how and where to pass focus.

    I'll leave it to @Bormacska to explain to Aurors the best focus pass strategies because that it their speciality!

  • WerewolfChaserWerewolfChaser Posts: 648 ✭✭✭✭
    #7427 April, 2020, 05:11 pm.

    @Punkyfins As an author I transfer focus first leaving me with 1 focus for a hex. Being an Aussie and likely suffering from poor latency the for I've picked is often engaged before I have the chance. It only p's me off when I'm left to fight a spider or selling with no hex.

    Lower level chambers I play differently. All the Ruins I never give focus or hex. Those foe are very weak and I'm on a mission to just get the job done quickly.

    Now, regarding Larry the Lizard. If you let him out you are a bad lizard owner and he's probably better off without you. 😝

    The comment did take me back to my World of Warcraft days. One day I was busy healing on a raid boss. I must have wriggled on my chair too much because it broke leaving me falling backwards injuring my back and hitting my head. I remember grabbing a cushion and completing the battle from the floor and nobody died on my watch. 😃

  • PunkyfinsPunkyfins Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #7527 April, 2020, 05:22 pm.

    @WerewolfChaser *laughing* truly. At that point you have my personal unequivocal and explicit permission to bail. You can quote me on that. 🤣😂

  • kiheikidkiheikid Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #7627 April, 2020, 05:22 pm.

    @MrSciGuy - you’re quick to judge me as selfish for casting det hex before team proficiency ... but i actually would cast team proficiency first if the teammates sent me enough extra focus my way,. can’t bloody well ask them in the absence of face-to-face communication during teamplay.

    are we professors really supposed to throw even more resources (strong invigoration potions each taking 6 hours to brew) of our own to get extra focus, just to cast the team proficiency to help so-called teammates (not of our own choosing) , some of which are doing nothing except waiting ... and waiting ... just long enough for a foe to “flash” upon being det hex’d ?!?! it’s a two-way street and i’ll cast the proficiency when enough folks start sharing focus.

    by the way, i already have been in a good number of 5-player teams, some of which are PPPAA or PPAAM and i have yet to see the other professors cast a team proficiency!!! and i would know if they did because we would see the team proficiency icon appear during gameplay.

    i’d be interested in seeing whether you change your tune after a bit more reflection or team play of your own, though i would not wish free riders or det hex theft onto anyone else.

  • OwlxOwlx Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7727 April, 2020, 05:28 pm.

    @WerewolfChaser LOL. if we should every meet in a chamber I will never leave you will a full stamina un-hexed spider!

    for all to know if you have to leave a spider for an Auror you should fight it until its stamina is under 50% and take the spiders last attack before leaving it. We call them squishies. An Auror can then finish it with 1 or 2 shots. Professors think how much you hate DWs!

  • MrSciGuyMrSciGuy Posts: 974 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7827 April, 2020, 05:44 pm.

    @kiheikid after more reflection and plenty of team play of my own, my tune has not changed. Strategy absolutely varies based on chamber level, number and types of professions, focus sharing, etc. But, when able to, I still cast deterioration hex on foes that I don’t necessarily plan on taking on myself, just to help out the group as a whole. I hope your experiences with the Knight Bus improve.

  • OwlxOwlx Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7927 April, 2020, 06:00 pm.
  • OwlxOwlx Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8027 April, 2020, 06:01 pm.
  • LucoireLucoire Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8127 April, 2020, 06:01 pm.


    Throwing Dex for the team 5 star then 4 star foes in this order Spiders, Wolves (Puppies) Erklings then Dark wizards

    reasoning is those foes have defense breach and are the toughest and take to most spell energy

    • Death-Eaters, Yes.
    • Acromantulas, Yes.
    • Werewolves, Yes.
    • Erklings, maybe. Not necessarily needed but if you have Focus to spare, go for it.

    but that's just my thought. Erklings are surprisingly fragile if you know how to tickle them.

  • OwlxOwlx Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8227 April, 2020, 06:01 pm.
  • OwlxOwlx Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8327 April, 2020, 06:02 pm.

    yes i'm posting in several threads to cast a wide net so it can reach more players

  • MrSciGuyMrSciGuy Posts: 974 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8427 April, 2020, 06:07 pm.

    Great videos, thanks for posting @Owlx!

  • OwlxOwlx Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8527 April, 2020, 06:07 pm.


    that works too. different group preference

    most aurors don't need Hex on DE

    and a 5 or 4 star Erkling can give an Auror a hard time

    Aurors don't haven't mastered tickling erklings.

    I hex based on what aurors need to avoid knockout especially if there is no magi

    and i loved your earlier comment on spiders.

  • ImaginatioImaginatio Posts: 833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #8627 April, 2020, 06:08 pm.

    I just wanted to send my apologies to whoever was in the battle with me in the dark chamber below. There was an error asking me to restart and it took three force restarts to get back in, which cost me at least a minute or two. The fortress was being very slow after getting back in and it seems a fellow team member may have been kicked out as well after I got in, all of which caused us to loose the battle. 😢


    Just watched the video @Owlx posted and realised it may have been caused because of the bug related to the revive charm I was using. Apologies to all my teammates in the battle. I’m going to try and avoid that charm completely from future battles until there’s a fix for that bug.

  • WerewolfChaserWerewolfChaser Posts: 648 ✭✭✭✭
    #8727 April, 2020, 06:12 pm.

    You can sort of solo the fortress by entering a lobby with nobody in it. As soon as you get in click start before anyone joins you.

    Free Riders... I have given this some thought and I have 2 suggested ways of dealing with them.

    1. We can go back to the lobby after the battle , before rewards are issued. All active players join in fighting them. Once they're dead they can't receive the fortress reward. Possibly have a time out before they can attempt another fortress.

    2. We can make them stand in the sun whilst injecting them

  • ImaginatioImaginatio Posts: 833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8827 April, 2020, 06:25 pm.

    My edited post just went to moderation, but in case it doesn’t appear, I just wanted to apologise again to my teammates in that battle. I watched the video that @Owlx posted and realised, the error may have been caused because I used the revive charm. I’m going to try to avoid that charm completely in future battles until a fix is found, which will hopefully be soon.

  • DogoutlawDogoutlaw Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8927 April, 2020, 06:42 pm.

    Even if the auror didn’t pass focus, I’d still shield first. Most likely them because I know the damage I can handle, I don’t know them. Esp for aurors!

    If you’re gonna fight low level chambers, you’re very well gonna fight with baby aurors and MZs. The auror might not even have the focus charm lesson. And if that’s the case, low level chambers are exactly where they should be. They also only start out with two focus until they get their initial focus lessons, which aren’t at the top. One is in the middle and the second is at the bottom of the tree.

    Also, many have reported the lag bug where people are stuck in waiting room watching clock tick down only to find themselves on the reward screen. Again, low chambers, new players. They don’t know this bug, they don’t know the fix. What you see is a free loader; what they see is a clock tick down while it appears YOU haven’t hit join yet.

    If you want your teammates to be better, lead by example. Coming here and showing their usernames in pics to shame them is unacceptable! @hpwulola and @HPWUblue I don’t understand why that was even allowed!

  • kiheikidkiheikid Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #9027 April, 2020, 06:45 pm.

    @Owlx thank you for sharing the battle-guide vids ... i hope enough players will watch.


    i will still try to prioritize casting proficiency before det hex (IF enough focus available, but it is a big if) in higher chambers (forest and dark), but not in lower chambers (ruins and tower).



    @Dogoutlaw there is no intent to shame a specific player, but there is an intent to shed light on a problem ... nice work picking and choosing whom to ascribe worse motivations and whom to defend with innocent explanations

  • DogoutlawDogoutlaw Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #9127 April, 2020, 06:51 pm.

    @Imaginatio it’s not the revive charm. PLEASE revive me! And do so asap. The cause is when someone is ko’d and everyone is engaged, or at least that’s the current theory. As the MZ, pop out of your foe occasionally to check on your team. And if you’re about to defeat something, it’s still a good idea to pop out before the final hit. Revive as necessary, wait for others about to die, and then jump back in. Hopefully they’ll find the fix soon!

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