The Free Rider Problem



  • MrSciGuyMrSciGuy Posts: 974 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3225 April, 2020, 02:45 am.

    @Owlx you always slide by that moderation... teach me your ways! I posted those over an hour ago and they’re still floating in space somewhere.

  • kiheikidkiheikid Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3325 April, 2020, 03:00 am.

    thanks @Owlx

    i do hope orangewizard’s warning comes from someone with official authority to do simething about the free rider problem

  • OwlxOwlx Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3425 April, 2020, 02:31 pm.

    Few thoughts for this thread.

    Do I think there are some players freeloading yes.

    But I also feel there may be more that are overwhelmed with team play for the 1st time. OOOH other players YAY. WHAT TO I DO?!


    Other times it can be a bug. I got left Tower 1 with 14 foes. I choose to think the other player encountered an error. I was able to clear all foes with 2 seconds and only use 1 PE. So ok. closer than I'd like. That's why I'm sticking to low Tower chambers unless I see a gold badge.

    My apology to the other 4 players that got stuck with too many foes when I got locked out. Android 10 device care standard setting was trying to sleep the WU app even though I have it as an exception and never to sleep. I got a black screen and spinning clock for the 2 foes i tried to tap. Hard close and restart brought me back at award screen.

    This error was caused by my phone and not the game. It was still out of my control.

    We need to our fellow witches and wizards the benefit of the doubt.

    You can control being with a random group. Go into a chamber with no other players, press start very quickly, and leave with lots of time on the count down if you don't want to team play.

    Maybe we will get a solo option. Hoping we get a team code button. Please.

    That said I also agree with the fine print from the Orange Wizard infographic that would prevent awards to inactive players.

    Understanding that in the case of my phone error I would not have collected an awards and I would have lost my runestone. It was not the game error and every once in while stuff happens.

  • ClairabusGryffClairabusGryff Posts: 988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3525 April, 2020, 02:34 pm.

    Thank you @Owlx for posting those diagrams about the different professions as that was very helpful for me to learn!! 😘😘😘

  • ClairabusGryffClairabusGryff Posts: 988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3625 April, 2020, 02:42 pm.

    @Owlx i agree with everything you wrote above too...since we are really in the beginning of the Knight Bus we need to cut people some slack. I am hoping eventually underneath each person in the battle there will be a number of how many foes the person has defeated that way we know everyone is doing their part. l Personally divide the number of foes by how many players so that I know how many to take out. So if there are 5 players and 22 foes then I will do 4 and time permitting a 5th one since I have a high number of hit points so that is my personal plan of attack. I go after erklings and acromantulas first of course and then pixies if need be. But werewolves, DE, and dark wizards take so much SE for me to combat which is basically what those diagrams say.

  • OwlxOwlx Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3725 April, 2020, 02:52 pm.

    Well *** I tried to edit my last post here, to add player names from the battle I where my phone froze.

    their names were not @ postable here and i ended up deleting my post and no draft.

    HUGE face palm!

    long story short there are some errors.

    Mine was caused by over aggressive device are in the Android 10. I got locked out.

    I could not control my situation hard restart of app brought me back right at award screen. I apologize to the other 4 players that got stuck.

  • Uli14Uli14 Posts: 18 ✭✭
    edited April 2020 #3825 April, 2020, 04:12 pm.

    just had another free rider

    so obvious when just the two of you

    I left again 😂

    Post edited by HPWUblue on
  • LeFayeofAlbionLeFayeofAlbion Posts: 518 ✭✭✭✭
    #3925 April, 2020, 04:44 pm.

    I’ve encountered so many freeloaders.

    Ive also been booted out of the chambers (good luck to the freeloaders if they were there. Try to finish that chamber without the only other participating player)

    And my luck has been terribly bad recently that I haven’t been getting foundable fragments at all even when using a lvl 5 runestone in dark chambers. So I’m taking a break.

  • LeahNoxLeahNox Posts: 12 ✭✭
    #4025 April, 2020, 05:08 pm.

    I experienced, for the first time, sitting in a chamber with other players as the clock counted down and then once it hit zero, it took me directly to the rewards screen. I’m not a free-loader, but it would’ve definitely looked that way. Not sure how to avoid that glitch in the future, but just a heads up that it may be out of the players control.

  • PunkyfinsPunkyfins Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #4125 April, 2020, 06:55 pm.

    Love @ZookiTabooki 's story. 5 times out of 6, it's lower level players who just pounce on the first available foe out of enthusiasm. Then they go "oh hey!" And with four foes left finally give me some focus so I can help them 😆. Magis who get battle-rage and pounce on a spider, while their team Auror whittles away her hp 👀. So most of it is just learning. There are a few who -apparently!- feel one higher level player can pull both through Dark IV (again. Please train and learn in the lower chambers: I will carry you, and I truly don't mind. But leave the higher chambers for when you're sure. Don't pick 'em if you're going to fail or bail). So I'm convinced 70% of it is good intentions. :) And. There are also bugs aplenty. So : here's to presumption of Good Intentions until proven otherwise. 🍷

    Edited : and lest I am misunderstood, TL;DR learning is perfectly ok!! 💜

  • NursePoppyNursePoppy Posts: 82 ✭✭✭
    #4225 April, 2020, 07:30 pm.

    Wow, I have learned so much from this thread and all the graphics. Thanks, fellow Witches and Wizards!

    I haven't Fortressed with a group in so long that I forgot how best to use my powers. That's really bad for a Ravenclaw!

    Even though I usually play in the Forest by myself, I've been playing in the Ruins while I relearn my skillz. I had to make myself a little paper cheat sheet LOL.

    I like that this game challenges me so many different ways.

    See you in Hogwarts!

  • ClairabusGryffClairabusGryff Posts: 988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4326 April, 2020, 01:24 am.

    I just did three back to back Dark5 and they were all EPIC and amazing. It was my first time in D5 and I played with a bunch of awesome people and all three times we had a balanced team and wow the amount of CXP you get is impressive. Holy ****! Between those three times I got four red spell books. So freaking happy tonight!!

  • OwlxOwlx Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4426 April, 2020, 01:57 am.

    @ClairabusGryff 1st welcome to the darkside

    Enjoy the penthouse! Love when it rains red books.

  • LucoireLucoire Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4526 April, 2020, 10:00 am.

    I've had an interesting Group today:

    • AAAPM (with me being the M) in Forest 3
    • at the beginning there were (among other things) 1 Acromantula and 1 Erkling which I pacified gently and quickly
    • After that I cast Bravery Charm (which took me down to 0 Focus)
    • And from that point on, all that spawned were 5* Death-Eaters, 4*-Elite-Dark Wizards and a metric ton of Werewolves (and a single 3*-Elite-Pixie)
    • I refrained from tackling the Elite-Pixie, keeping the "elite-Assignment" in mind.
    • At that point I thought to myself: "I can help you with those. I'm not good at pacifying Werewolves - as they're quite good at punching me in the face - but I can. Then again, the AAAP-Combo is far better at that and I would only waste time." and "I don't feel okay sitting here in the Lobby 'preserving Energy' but then again, what else am I going to do aside from using all available Focus to keep y'all safe?"

    Thoughts? Comments?

  • kiheikidkiheikid Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4626 April, 2020, 10:45 am.

    if you are contributing focus or charms or hexes, your teammates will see the difference.

    if you do nothing at all, they’ll see you as the free rider.

    so better to contribute something than to do nothing at all.

  • Magpie31Magpie31 Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4726 April, 2020, 10:51 am.

    Personally, @Lucoire, if I am in a team of "randoms" where there is at least one of every profession, I wouldn't expect anyone to play outside their skill set. I would have seen the situation and you sitting out and just accepted that you know we are more efficient at those. What irritates me is when there is - to use your language - a metric ton of acromantualas and the magizoologists go after the 2 pixies, or aurors leaving the death eaters. We have proficiencies and it is good to use them.

    However, having played now with some experienced group players, I am starting to hear the other side of it, and there might be reasoning behind certain choices that is hard to get across with strangers.

    (126 words)

  • PunkyfinsPunkyfins Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #4826 April, 2020, 12:51 pm.

    Yup @Lucoire, it might not feel right to just "sit there", but we all have a job to do. It's like, when Aurors (for whatever valid or not-so-valid reason) do not transfer focus to me: there are limits to what I can do. Thankfully it usually goes very well. I pick off the werewolves*, boost my team's defence and proficiency and stay within my remit as much as possible. Secretly I hope that- with all the battles I did - some players pick up on how very powerful my protection and proficiency boosts are for them: and everyone is happy. (And I don't have to patiently try to tame unwilling spiders for a full minute).

    *Don't ask how @Lucoire. You probably don't want to know...

  • FireNightingaleFireNightingale Posts: 105 ✭✭✭
    #4926 April, 2020, 12:52 pm.

    I don't know if anyone wasn't pulling their weight in larger groups. I doubt I'd have noticed then as it all gets pretty hectic. The only time it might have happened is when I went into my highest unlocked chamber with a full group, burnt through a ton of potions & we still lost. I don't know whether I was the only one using potions or whether someone was in there and not trying, but I thought more players was supposed to make a level easier to finish? If I burnt that many potions on solo I could probably have completed it!

    I did duo with someone on a lower level (maybe level 8) fortress chamber & felt I was doing the lion's share of the work. However, I tried to bear in mind that they might be a low level player fighting at the max of what they can do. So them not casting any spells could be them not having unlocked any, not them not bothering. There doesn't seem to be any way to see who in a group has maxed out their lesson plan and who is still working on it. If I have to choose between two people to buff with protection, I'd lean towards buffing the weaker player so that they're less likely to die and take time out. If the group make-up, mob type, and group behaviour (no-one tackling tougher mobs) means I'm having to fight non-professor mobs & burn through healing potions to stay alive then I'm going to buff myself!

    It's tricky as penalising inactivity risks hurting those with poor internet connection, but you don't want people spoiling the game for others by making them spend the spell energy so they can coast a chamber for free. Equally, some of us want to help lower-level players and others would immediately quit a chamber that wasn't a fully maxed-out optimal line-up!

  • PunkyfinsPunkyfins Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #5026 April, 2020, 01:02 pm.

    @FireNightingale it would be on my wishlist to be able to see which profession level players are. Just a bandwidth of one, two, or three stars would suffice. So I can see who needs what.

    Also it would be nice to see which player is the one doing the casting. I've often cast my protection on the one sole Auror in a party, only to have them bail: and strand the rest with no more focus to use. As I said earlier: no judgement, might be a bug, might be a baby crying. Might be a hitchhiker, that's fine. But it would be good to know who is able to be active and who might need extra protection. And incidentally who is just along for the ride: and doesn't need my charms.

    (Also that would give me information as to whether to risk banging that high-level dark wizard on the head: as the rest of my team might be lower level, with little recourse than to use precious potions).

  • FireNightingaleFireNightingale Posts: 105 ✭✭✭
    #5126 April, 2020, 01:13 pm.

    @Punkyfins Exactly. I'm a professor. If I'm the highest level professor in a group of professors & a magizoologist then I'm happy to bite the bullet, burn a potion or two & take on the harder mobs.

  • PunkyfinsPunkyfins Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #5226 April, 2020, 02:10 pm.

    Just a short addendum to my previous post: re some users using a "headcount" of foes, to judge whether players are pulling their weight. While I understand your frustration: i respectfully disagree.

    I've had high-level experienced Magis healing my scrawny backside while i was struggling with a particularly aggressive werewolf. That's invaluable. I'd rather they do that, than try to painstakingly tackle the werewolf themselves. It's faster, it's cheaper. A lower level Prof giving *me* their protection so I can use the focus to boost proficiency for everyone. Great idea: great teamwork.

    And just unfortunate shuffles, as @Lucoire has described above: where I simply have little to add: except for hexing everything and letting the adults in the room do their thing. ;)

    It has -rightly- been stipulated that casting *is* adding value to your team: but i wanted to mention that explicitly.

  • ClairabusGryffClairabusGryff Posts: 988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5326 April, 2020, 02:12 pm.

    I only have one lesson to complete as a magizoo which I will complete today but in any fortress battle **** all acromantulas first then if there are any elite foes I use my proficiency for elites which costs 7 focus . If there are no more spiders I go after erklings and bring back anyone knocked out. So I feel like as a magizoo I am doing my job correctly. Any input is welcome.

  • PunkyfinsPunkyfins Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #5426 April, 2020, 02:16 pm.

    @ClairabusGryff my 2 cents: you're doing great! Just don't get too busy fighting and forget to heal your friendly local Auror (or struggling professors) before they ko. 😊💜 And for the love of everything magical: have fun! There are many styles and many strategems which are valid. Enjoy yourself!

  • ClairabusGryffClairabusGryff Posts: 988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5526 April, 2020, 02:34 pm.

    @Punkyfins yes, thank you I forgot to mention that I watch anyone’s stamina levels and bring them up if they are going down. I am at 525 so I do what I can to help other peeps. But thank you for your kind words. I have been having a ball!!

  • FireNightingaleFireNightingale Posts: 105 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #5626 April, 2020, 06:36 pm.

    There also seems to be a halfway house between free-riding and competing. People who fight a mob or two but leave the lion's share to other people. I have a theory that people are doing it to conserve spell energy. :o(

    Hopefully in time they can come up with something to recognise players who regularly join and do nothing, or very little. Maybe direct them to their own little fortress with other similarly inactive players where they have to either lose runestones when nobody fights the mobs, or earn their way back to the regular fortress groups by actually fighting!

    Edited to add: I just did what I thought would be a quick level 5 chamber but there were TWO aurors in there who just sat there and fought nothing while letting myself and the two other professors take on all the mobs. The free-riding thing looks like it's becoming an increasing problem. People can use other people's spell energy to grind XP and books without doing anything. When some people are stuck at home and forced to buy spell energy to play, this is basically stealing. I hope the Devs crack down on it as soon as development time allows!

  • kiheikidkiheikid Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #5727 April, 2020, 07:51 am.

    well said, @FireNightingale — i did 4 group challenges at tower 5 and forest 1 today. though a bit chaotic with others swiping my foe after i det hexed it, leaving me a different foe with not enough focus to det hex again, there were no free riders. it was the situation with only one other player where i experienced the free rider, on two different occasions. i am definitely swearing off challenges with only one other “teammate” because i am the only one left doing the work and spending the SE and potions if the other teammate is a free rider. at least with a team of 3 or more, i can share the load with the other teammate in case of a free rider.


    by the way, that very first free rider i encountered (and wrote about in OP) was no beginner. that auror had to be level 40 or more just like me, because we were given earlier access to knight bus than others (including my level 38 auror better half). so, folks, let’s all not bend over backwards to make excuses for these free riders as possible newbs. too many of them know exactly what they are doing ... writing a karma check that will be cashed with penalties & interest some day.

  • MrSciGuyMrSciGuy Posts: 974 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #5927 April, 2020, 12:29 pm.

    I agree with @Magpie31. I too am a professor, so I know the skill set well. Now I am by no means an expert on group play, but I’ve done it enough, even before the Knight Bus, to know how to work together as a team. @kiheikid Putting a deterioration hex on a foe to essentially claim it as “yours” seems to me an extremely selfish way to play. That’s not really helping out your teammates in any way; rather it’s helping you out by conserving spell energy. As Magpie said, you should hex the toughest foes in the chamber, regardless of whether or not you plan to take them on - that’s what a good teammate does. If you want aurors to share focus with you and magizoos to heal you, lead by example.

    It’s comments like these that have me second guessing whether people you play with are indeed “free riders” or whether they just don’t play the way you like. I guess I might not know until we end up in a chamber together.

    Post edited by MrSciGuy on
  • PunkyfinsPunkyfins Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2020 #6027 April, 2020, 12:56 pm.

    @Magpie31 agreed. Though - as indicated in the etiquette of gameplay thread - I am dithering on whether to cast proficiency before protection instead. In lower chambers that seems to work a bit better (though theoretically the protection-first stratagem is more powerful). Many Aurors seem to prefer hexing over giving focus in lower chambers. And sometimes it's just a lack of experience on my team mate's part and Aurors don't use their full focus at all. Any thoughts?

    (Also tagging @MrSciGuy and other professors).

  • FireNightingaleFireNightingale Posts: 105 ✭✭✭
    #6127 April, 2020, 01:26 pm.

    As another data point, when I det-hex it's either to make a tough mob easier for the class-appropriate witch or wizard to take on or because I'm about to attack it & I've already done all the appropriate buffs. Only miffed if someone beats me to it if I'm the only professor, it's a professor suitable mob, and there are other more class suitable mobs available for challenge, and even then, only mildly miffed. In a busy screen people can just be pointing and tapping - I'm happy as long as they're fighting a mob!

    But to clarify, the free-riders are genuinely a thing. In that battle with the two non-acting aurors there were only ever the two other professors in combat whenever I came back to the chamber between battles, and the aurors' stamina bars remained full throughout.

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