Please make trace level more important
ArtfulAngler
Posts: 22 ✭✭
One of the big frustrations I have experienced and also see in many of the groups is when you fail to return a trace after several masterfuls only to either have it run or get it on a fair or good cast. As a player I want to feel like my skill matters not just the RNG
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"Masterful" does NOT guarantee catching... it depends on the difficulty of the trace.
Yes, obviously. My point is that the benefit from a masterful cast and the penalty for a fair cast should be greater. As it is the game feels like your luck with the RNG matters a lot more than your skill with traces. Just this morning trying to catch a snitch I had 6 greats and 4 masterfuls and nothing then totally botched a cast and fair caught the snitch. I would almost have been happier if it had departed on the fair cast because I screwed it up so it would feel like what I do matters compared to RNG. Yes I find slot machines boring too
The most important aspect of a trace that determins the chance to catch it, is its "Threat level".
See here for further information:
https://community.harrypotterwizardsunite.com/en/discussion/1519/casting-ability-rank#latest
@Lucoire that is as it should be. The threat level should basis for how hard it is to return the confoundable. What I would like to see changed is to increase the amount of influence the player skill has on the process. For example, instead of a high threat being a 30% chance of returning on the worst possible fair cast and 46% on the best possible master cast why not make it 20% with the worst fair cast and 60% with the best masterful?
Hit enter too soon. In my example above the best possible fair cast would be about 34% and the worst possible masterful about 42%. It seems like making a masterful cast instead of a fair cast should matter more than 1 time in 12
Keep in mind that RNG is both curse and blessing. There has to be a fine balance between "being somewhat rewarding for everyone" - as the game wants to be inclusive, even towards those who aren't as skilled - and "providing an incentive to excel".
Personally I think that the game currently is a good representation of that balance - that however is subjective (obviously)
@Lucoire I get what you are saying but obviously disagree with where that balance should be.
My belief is that if you were to increase masterful at this point you would have a problem with making it too easy to catch the highest level foundables. Either that or you would make it impossible for us fair casters to catch even low level foundables without potions.
Why do you need to catch everything all the time just because you are a good spell caster?
In some respects returning foundables should be hard work. It should take perseverance and require long hard effort with minimal reward. Just being good at casting spells shouldn't be the end all because then why would anyone else bother doing it?
It seems like making a masterful cast instead of a fair cast should matter more than 1 time in 12
@Osprey1 I'm totally ok with your sentiment but that takes us back to energy consumption. And with your point above, then it proves my point that there is no point in the various levels of casting. So... Remove it. I'm ok with that option too. Just get rid of the tiers because they serve no purpose. In my opinion, they're more frustrating than useful.
@Craeft You keep saying cast skill has no point, but the math says otherwise. I would say getting 4 out of 10 captures is better than 3 out of 10 for rewarding a minor skill while not overly penalizing a less skillful player. It's a 10% improvement and is also rewarded with a significant XP boost.
I think there is a perception issue in the game that masterful casts should result in massively improved captures. I have argued that that mechanic would break the game from a mathematical point of view making it too easy to catch Dumbledore for example.
@Craeft I do not share the energy consumption issue and that may alter my perception of the game and this particular mechanic. I have tons of available energy and go to bed each night as we say, "In the red."
I struggled in the early days of Ingress because of a lack of portals and similarly never had pokeballs in Pokemon Go, but now I have no issues. Since HPWU started I have had 5 new Ingress portals approved, I had one refused and 2 are pending. I now have a new fortress and greenhouse in my neighborhood and two new inns I regularly walk to.
I would suggest that the way out of the energy crisis is not to change the game, but rather change the playing field.
I have a serious energy issue here where I live. There is a severe lack of inns (it takes me longer to DRIVE to another inn than to wait 5 minutes). There is one location where there's an inn within walking distance of a fortress and that's on the other side of town. And it's not like I live in the mountains of Northern California. I'm in a city. It's really bad in some places so it is a concern... and the strength of a given cast, being unreasonably non-perceivable merely accentuates that issue. So, my take is get rid of tiered casting because I stand by my statement that it serves no purpose. It doesn't provide any benefit to cast a masterful over good - and if that's the case, then there is indeed no point to it. There really needs to be a perceivable difference between good and masterful; however, I have had very little success on a masterful cast with much more on a good cast. And while I understand the concept of and process of RNG, the "R" shouldn't be SO random that skill is ignored (which, it is... it's just a fact).
Now... with that said, I also understand the limitations of some to literally be unable to physically get masterful. That sincerely strengthens my point to just get rid of the tiered system if we're not going to make it worthwhile.
Also note before it gets repeated... I am NOT saying that a masterful cast should GUARANTEE a successful foundable return. However, my anecdotal stats show that it fails more often than not. Therefore... pointless.
@Craeft Well, "anecdotal stats" are highly unrelyable and therefore pointless 😋
@Craeft To elaborate (using anecdotes AND statistics)
Let's take "Tom Riddle", one of the most rare of "EMERGENCY" traces.
For a HIGH-LEVEL, EMERGENCY Encounter (assuming "no potion"), the difference between "worst fair cast" and "best masterful cast" are 0,23% for a level 1 player and 10,8% for a level 60 Player.
In short, if the difference between "fair" and "masterful" isn't significant enough for you, you're too low-level.
I'll throw something out there before I go to bed.
I believe the XP awarded for masterful is excessive. Base capture rate 50 XP masterful 100 XP That makes it 150 XP triple the XP. Really?
Go fight amongst yourselves, my bed is calling me.
@Lucoire -
I was admitting that my evidence was anecdotal. I wouldn't call anecdotal evidence "pointless." If it were pointless, this game wouldn't have a "report a bug" feature or "feedback" option because most of that is anecdotal until others experience it as well.
You can't use different levels of players to make a point on spell casting level effects. You can't bring in other elements to make a point about another element. You either have to give the same controls in the situation or the results have to be discounted.
What is the percentage of increase of CAST SUCCESS ONLY based on the same person at the same level casting fair, good, great, masterful? The fact is that even if there is a difference, it's so minute of a difference that it's imperceivable. It should at least be noticeable.
@Craeft The difference is certainly noticable... just not for everyone. You would've noticed that if you had thoroughly read my text.
For a Level 30 Player (ignoring Potions), the chance to catch a Mooncalf is 30,8% for a fair cast and 47,3% for a masterful cast. Is that not significant enough for you?
For a Level 20 Player (ignoring Potions), the chance to catch a Mooncalf is 28,8% for a fair cast and 44% for a masterful cast.
For a Level 20 Player (ignoring Potions), the chance to catch Nymphadora Tonks is 17,3% for a fair cast and 26% for a masterful one.
The Difference is certainly significant... you're just too weak overall compared to the Encounter.
First, where did you get those stats? I'm not arguing them but looking for a citation so I can verify and also have a citation for future use should I need it.
Second, it's interesting to me that almost all my masterfuls fail regardless of foundable. Anything with aguamenti, I almost always cast masterful. It almost always fails. Then if I just cast good, it succeeds. So no, it is not a perceivable difference when using my experience with it.
@Craeft just gotta hunker down and do regarding energy - i live in a barely incorporated town in nowhere, iowa farm country. i am i suppose fortunate to have 3 inns within a half kilometer walk of each other.
i can literally play all day long and not fill my spell energy (325 current cap - have not actually filled to max since i cracked 300)
a few times i got to go to a city, nearest one was a long drive away, and even at 3 energy every meal with a dozen+ inns around city hall i was able to fill my bar to the max at high 200's with just an hour and a halfs walking doing every trace and hitting a fortress along the way.
back in my tiny town on the daily energy is ... tough. it takes a long time to get, and i have to typically walk past all three inns three times each to get enough energy to go fight a tower fortress battle if i am not tapping traces. full meals arent as often as they were before so its a lot of grind for a little bit of payback.
again - opportunity is a thing. if i lived in a city, based on the few rare times i was able to get to one for a couple hours, i doubt i could ever run out of energy. its crazy easy to stay full when you have inns at every turn. out in the sticks? not so much.
i am a level 35 wizard, rank 11 auror, rank 3 professor, rank 3 magizoologist. 99% of that was done in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere with a lot of sweat and walking. i have cleared more then 600km walk distance according to my achievement.
i wish full meals appeared more often on remote inns, sure, but it is not impossible to do things. access and opportunity are a thing - it costs a lot less to live in the middle of nowhere but takes a lot more effort. you get what you pay for, and living in a city costs more, but you get more from your money.
i will admit that sometimes when all three inns are only pumpkin juice and berts beans i just close the app and stop playing because it is frustrating to have to work so much for so little, but if you put the effort into it you can be successful.
i might suggest to the games masters making a higher chance for full meals based on how many inns are in say a five mile circle of any given inn, but if you put in the effort you will be able to make progress.
this is response to your post where you started about the energy issue relating to casting. i hear you, its a whole lot of effort for a very small return. but not impossible.
the purpose of fair/good/great/masterful is a modification of the experience you get if you catch it, not so much a modifier on whether you catch it or not. forget where i read that, but that was what your level of casting effected.
How in the world are we supposed to get to level 50 when each trace is costing so flipping much in spell energy!?! If u get lucky enough o make a masterful cast or even a great one it should result in returning the object. I’m sorry .. I love this game but the spell energy requirements are really starting to have a HUGE impact on my ability to continue to play the game and that’s sooooo sad