About the adversary feature...

HalloMamiHalloMami Posts: 76 ✭✭✭
in General Questions #1 latest comment 16 April, 2021, 02:25 pm.

Alright, so adversaries are live now for a while so I thought I give some feedback; I'm thankful for new features, but so far my verdict is that I find them mostly boring/tedious too play.

Some feedback:


1) Ok, having a source of DADA books is cool, I guess. If only there would be anything exciting in the SOS tree to unlock with them...

2) I feel the amount of dark marks you encounter in the wild is fair. Dark marks are terribly overpriced, though. Not that I would buy any otherwise...

...and the other stuff:

a) Encounters are unstable; lose network connection and you lost the adversary. Wonky GPS signal also seems problematic at times.

b) They are terribly boring. I'm Magizooligst and skilled the upper block of the advanced skill training. The question is not if I can beat the adversary but how long it will take. Having to stand in a place for a considerable amount of time (in a game that is about moving around) is boring. I can't skill anything anymore that will make the fights last shorter and they still are looong. Geez.

There are no tactical descsions, no interaction with other players, nothing to do apart from tracing casts and watching the animations (well, other than "Should I chug a potion or not"), the rest is random chance.

c) The advanced combat training is super uninspired, lazy and bland.. Feels like the team was given a certain budget, spent it on creating the adversaries and the related animations and 5 minutes before the deadline thought about adding a new talent tree but had no budget left.

Why does each profession have the same tree? And if you have multiple professions, why would you skill the tree thrice (rather than switching professions to the one tree you have skilled when you are doing adversaries).

So, yeah, my wife normally skips adversaries when she sees them (although she actually plays this event, surprised me). I do them at least when I encounter them in the wild. Well, mostly. Otherwise, I'm sitting on 17 EDMs that I got from quests or drops and don't feel masochistic enough to use. Ok, I did once when I had too much energy to open gifts, so that's one purpose they serve, I guess...

So, how do you like the adversary feature so far?



  • DrakoniteDrakonite Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭✭
    #217 March, 2021, 03:37 pm.

    I like them overall but yes after a while they do become more boring/tedious, as to the duration I will say that magiz w/o extims is probs the 'longest' of the professions, an auror with 10/15 and some potents (and wits) takes much much much less time, SE and effort to defeat each chain....w narcissa as a possible notable exception b/c of how much/often she dodges. I fear the Lethals will take longer for all professions. Having said that it is well known (at least amongst the players) that the 3 professions vs advers unlike forts are hugely unbalnaced.

    I will fully agree on C). They could have made each profession's plan individual to match profession needs (some more crit for magiz, some defence breach and power for prof, some stamina and defense for auror etc), instead they went w the lazy/speediest way out.

    The only reason I have completed all 3 professions and profession adver plans is b/c im a type A completionist and the adver lessons+plans count towards achievements. Otherwise its not rly required for adversaries, seemingly the fastest/ "best" (in terms of time, se and resources spent per chain at least imho) is auror, everything else makes it only more tedious, boring and frustrating and ive tried all 3. All 3 professions are much more fun to play in forts.

    As to edms they are ridiculously overpriced for only 3 spawns, personally im saving my 70+ edms for lethals, as they (devs) have said that theyll only be avail. from edms and/or events. I want to gold star the lethals and then skip them ever after, lol...

  • coyotewoman42coyotewoman42 Posts: 31 ✭✭
    #317 March, 2021, 04:16 pm.

    I was just thinking last night how boring it is to just keep lobbing spells at an adversary. And frankly, Narcissa graphic was making me sea sick. I only use the EDM from thre wild or ones I scored from battles. If it was not for books. I would not spend my resources on this.

  • MotherOf2LionsMotherOf2Lions Posts: 51 ✭✭✭
    #417 March, 2021, 11:56 pm.

    The most fun I'm getting from this event is finding people to play with in the higher challenge chambers. Narcissa is tedious and boring, I agree.

  • ResurrectionIvyResurrectionIvy Posts: 54 ✭✭
    #519 March, 2021, 11:21 am.

    The positive - I like that

    • there are three foes in one encounter
    • fragments of the associated images are randomly earned and progress can be made at the first and/or second levels if I don’t care to spend the time or potions to fight the last one
    • they are fairly rare (except during an adversary event). It feels special to find one.
    • you reduced brew time for extimulo potions and wit-sharpening (critical as a Magi)

    The negative (in addition to the previous comments) -

    It has been disappointing to see so little increase in the ease of defeating adversaries, even upon reaching 13/15. If anything, it feels like Narcissa, in particular, has become more difficult to defeat as I have leveled up, or was that a tweak for the event? I am a level 59 Magi, but I still expect leveling up to increase mastery.

  • HalloMamiHalloMami Posts: 76 ✭✭✭
    #631 March, 2021, 09:14 am.

    To make this somewhat more constructive:

    I feel that the time required to do the easiest adversaries (e.g. Malfoy) is okish. So, basically I would like to see the hardest taking about that long and the easier ones scaled down accordingly.

    So, what about:

    1. Reduce the HPs of all adversaries by about 30%
    2. Increase the damage that adversaries do by 30%; prevent adversaries to attack more than thrice in a row.
    3. Increase the spell energy needed for each offensive spell to 2.

    Or, even increase spell energy to 3, but then add nodes to the skill tree to reduce the spell energy to 2 and ultimately 1.

    The combat system/skill tree relies too much on chances. Basically, you do hardly any damage when you hit normally, none at all when they dodge. Conversely you take no damage when you dodge and full damage otherwise. And then the chances of the adversaries hitting you several times in a row. Likewise, all skills in the tree "increase the chance" rather than give a fixed amount of additional damage or damage reduction. Why do I think this is bad?

    Well, I do agree that some kind of randomness is fine as it makes these battle a little less predetermined. HOWEVER, the downside is that if you can have bad luck, you can have extremely bad luck. You can have long streaks of opponents dodging, you not achieving critical hits or in the worst case the opponent attacking several times without you having a chance of doing anything.

    And this is where the law of big numbers kicks in: Yeah, the chance of you dying without ever casting is small, and you can reduce the likelyhood of the "unlucky" streaks happening by some of the skills, but given that enough people play, these WILL happen occasionally. And those will be extremely frustrating for the player , while the opposite, an extremely lucky streak will likely not be noticed by the player. So you increase the chances of a bad experience while not actually increasing the chances of a nice experience (granted, this is something that the game generally struggles with...).

    So, I'd suggest to convert some of the "+crit" nodes to a fixed bonus damage and some of the dodge nodes to "reduce damage" instead.

    I'd be interested to see how the dodge for lethals will pan out, but for the same reason my bet is on that this will end up being even less fun and hard to balance...

    If you would be willing to put more eff0rt into this (and I guess you are not):

    • Make it possible to use focus based talents; basically, before you enter a battle you can apply the typicaly charms or hexes to either you or the opponent. HP would need to carry over, then. It would be ok if you'd have to unlock them again in the SOS tree for the advanced combat training.
    • What I would love to see is to bring the "Unite" back into the game: Instead of effectively an elaborate oddity, the dark marks could act as a temporary fortress. Like, you would tap on it and you would end up in something akin to a chamber lobby. Other players that are nearby can join. In each stage, you get as many guards as you have players, so each player can choose which opponent to tackle (although everybody has to take on one); if one player dies, all player fail. For the final adversary, either one player does it alone (while the other may use charms?), or each player gets a copy. Or they take turns.
    • ...and produce more interesting skill trees that a more tailored for each of the professions.

  • VimaireVimaire Posts: 1
    #707 April, 2021, 04:14 pm.

    Adversaries won't be played long...

    Except from some of them, it s too long and need too many potions to beat them, especially if u r professor, even with 15th level.

    While red books r too difficult to loot at high level, even with specials nodes that r supposed to give more probability to gain them (must be +0,01% chance when I see the number I got with all nodes reached...), adversaries tree won't be completed until decades...

    Don't say it's because players don't play enough. I'm not an hardcore gamer but I'm far from being a casual. I'm level 46, professor lvl 15, played every brillant event, many day events, etc... Of course I had the bad idea, like many, to use red books in auror and zoo trees, to try them and cause there was no use at this time for this books. But I'm not even sure that with all adversaries nodes reach it will be better.

    I have already decided not to invest my game time in adversaries events since the last two ones. It s sad to reach that point...

    So with no specific changes, players will probably give up adversaries.

  • SwampRatUKSwampRatUK Posts: 57 ✭✭✭
    #807 April, 2021, 06:31 pm.

    I like the idea of multiple people (especially if you could all attack at the same time) but it does end up sounding a lot like the fortresses / hard to arrange if the instances are rare and random (could be done for community days - go to X at time to have 100 wizards against a very dangerous something)

    A way of making battles more varied would be a lot of work I expect but could be nice. Incorporate all the existing spells so you can say cast a bubble to impair the opponent and they might diffindo the bubble rather than attacking, or have fire / water spells, add in magical serpents and so on. Probably horrible to balance but potentially more fun than zap Narcissa 40 times or a lethal adversary 100 times

  • dayostephdayosteph Posts: 9 ✭✭
    #915 April, 2021, 05:27 pm.

    I disagree that natural spawns without dark marks is adequate. During events (i've logged the last three days) I've had only 4 spawns outside of dark marks, and i'm only seeing 3 spawns per mark. It is literally impossible for me to complete the bonus sticker assignment unless I were to spend 12+ hours playing. They need to substantially change the amount of event versus normal spawns during adversary events AND increase the amount of natural spawns. This is only the 2nd even I've not been able to complete since HP started and I'm ticked.

  • BenTigerBenTiger Posts: 575 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #1016 April, 2021, 08:49 am.

    Adversaries were a nice feature, at first... but then, they quickly just became a potion, energy, and time sink. All the players that I know prestige pages to gold, then they tend to stop even attempting to complete that Adversary chain.

    Other than to complete events, there is little reason to keep spending so much time, energy, and potions on Adversaries, once their page is gold. By the time you have all pages to gold, you have more than enough DADA books for every profession and the SOS tree.

    Lethal Adversaries will be a welcome new challenge, but once people get their pages to gold, they will be avoided like the plague.

    More balancing is also needed for the professions, as well. So many people were forced to master the Auror trees, due to the high energy/potion costs of Adversaries for the other professions (especially Professor). Hopefully, the third combat tree will bring some balance.

  • HalloMamiHalloMami Posts: 76 ✭✭✭
    #1116 April, 2021, 02:25 pm.

    @dayosteph : Well, I was talking about the adversaries in general, not adversaries in events. I agree that it is kind of weird there that all adversaries are boosted (with featured adversaries probably boosted a little more), instead of only having the featured adversaries boosted. But the post is really more about how adversaries work once you found one 🙂

    @BenTiger: Yeah, well, in fairness that is probably the same about most things in this (or for that matter a lot of other) game(s).

    The only aspect of this game that I might play for fun (that is, not to reach a specific goal) is a fortress chamber with some RL friends (which I haven't done in ages due to the crisis). For the rest, I like to set up personal goals that I feel need to be achieveable with the amount of effort I'm willing to put in.

    If there is something that I feel I can eventually achieve while having some fun along the way, I go for it. If there is something that would aquire what I would need "a reasonable" amount of **** I'll probably do. Something that I feel would require too much unfun **** and doesn't give me any advantage in the stuff that I do enjoy, I'll skip.

    And the latter is where I am with the adversaries. I will not try to prestige the related pages, I basically don't need DADA books given that the SOS tree doesn't contain anything anymore that I consider worthwhile going for, and since I expect the lethals to be even worse there is no point in proceeding in the skill tree for that (which saves me from **** a lot DADA books).

    So, going forward I'll probably tap on DMs that I see, and depending on how hard the opponents are either do the chain, or only the first or second guard. I'd be more enthusiastic and willing to put in the effort to potentially prestige the pages if I didn't experience them as being a super boring resource sink without sufficient pay-off...

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