Have they forgotten how Professors work? (Adversaries)

OistreOistre Posts: 1 ✭✭
in General Questions #1 latest comment 15 February, 2021, 04:16 am.

Have they forgotten that most of our abilities require Impairments/Enhancements?

That our Power against non-Proficient foes is 79?


Let us use our focus/Spells in Adversary fights, rebalance the whole thing, or let us reset our Profession so we can spend the resources on a Profession that works.

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  • DrakoniteDrakonite Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭
    #224 December, 2020, 03:19 pm.

    No, they just dont care.

  • AshkaaAshkaa Posts: 21 ✭✭
    #325 December, 2020, 10:04 am.

    I totally agree and have already posted on the subject, but they don't seem to care...

    And I am often wondering if the game designers know the mechanics of their game. For the least, they didn't invest much effort in designing the second level trees to balance the professions for the adversary fights.


    Even for the easiest fights, killing those opponents with 63 damage (132 on crits) is just too long and boring...

  • GracelessH0pperGracelessH0pper Posts: 8 ✭✭
    #414 January, 2021, 07:51 pm.

    I think it is a mechanism to get everyone to buy more potions, tbh.

  • DrakoniteDrakonite Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭
    #514 January, 2021, 08:56 pm.

    from 2 sos nodes (dont know which ones) you get the +2 enhancements so you should have 96 power instead of 79, but also all adversaries and their guardians have dif. defense and defense breach etc stats so damage (for all 3 professions) varies per.

  • lirsenlirsen Posts: 13 ✭✭
    #618 January, 2021, 02:13 pm.

    is even worse right now. plotter has released an infografic with the damage each profesion do and receive and not only we continue to be the worst class by far against overworld things, that they "fixed" the only problem an auror had, their fraility, letting him get a bonus to defense/protego that they shouldn't have

  • Magpie31Magpie31 Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #718 January, 2021, 03:14 pm.

    This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I lost sympathy with the "poor professor" crowd a couple of months back. I was also a professor first, and that was my first maxed profession.


    I had full sympathy at the start of the game, and for many months after that. After all, resource distribution was unfair, given the lack of power against oddities.


    Even after maxing my third profession on 23rd September 2020 (the first brilliant event a non-beta player who didn't exploit loopholes could achieve this), I had some sympathy, because I had chosen combat above SOS, and not everyone did.


    But we are now four months and almost 8 brilliant events on from this. That is another 80 restricted books. If, at this point, you have not chosen to pursue an additional profession, then that is on you.


    I believe that there is some intention of multiple profession development, indicated both by the ability to switch professions, and by the multiple achievements. Had we been intended just to pursue one, I am inclined to believe there would have been a single achievement of "complete a lesson plan" or "complete x lessons in a single profession" without specifying a a profession.


    There is a beauty in having multiple professions and skill sets for different types of event. In the field, I much prefer to be an auror, or for quick solo play in mid level fortresses. For higher solo play or for team play, I enjoy my professor role, and my magi is for filling gaps where necessary. Each of the three has a different playing style and way of thinking, and I really appreciate that.


    I am not saying everyone should aim to complete the first lesson plan of all three professions. Most people have no cause to. But at this point in the game, I think it is reasonable to invest in a second build for oddities / adversaries, given the resources we have available to us. I don't see it as a "poor professor" but rather something that we sort of vaguely knew when we chose to become professors, and now have the resources to compensate for it if we wish, rather than a developer mistake or oversight.


    As I said, this is likely to be an unpopular opinion, but it is mine.

  • OdetshkiOdetshki Posts: 67 ✭✭
    #818 January, 2021, 04:55 pm.

    Not everyone has played the game from the beginning. I never had a phone where it works before last july. That being said as an auror the adversaries wipe the floor with me all the time becaus of our stamina and we don't do 100 damage on them. So everyone has their own problems no matter what profession they are...

  • DrakoniteDrakonite Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 18 #918 January, 2021, 05:52 pm.

    the ability to multi-profession doesn't and shouldnt mean the devs should keep making the game unbalanced towards or away from any 1 profession. And if everyone went ahead with your argument the game would have no professors left.

  • PangarbanPangarban Posts: 25 ✭✭
    #1018 January, 2021, 08:09 pm.

    So basically, @Magpie31 is saying: I don't care that Professors are rubbish because we can all choose a different profession. In fact, that's a strong endorsement for the point of this thread.

  • DrakoniteDrakonite Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭
    #1118 January, 2021, 10:55 pm.

    Let me offer an unpopular opinion, then:


    they remove the 5 focus (become the beast) from magiz, 59 damage instead of 109, and less defense. And remove the defense against spiders defense boost.


    they remove first strike (DWD) and +10 dmg + def. when foe is below 50% from aurors as well as specialization vs dark forces.


    They remove all of it from both adversaries and oddities in map. Neither of those things are fort foes and fort profession plans should only count in forts.


    There, professions are balanced out, what suddenly professors arent all that wrong? Huh.....


    Since no one wants them do that perhaps some players amongst us, and devs should stop penalizing some players for choosing professors and only professors instead of 2 or 3 maxed professions, and fix/balance out stuff properly for once.

  • Magpie31Magpie31 Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #1219 January, 2021, 01:52 pm.

    The point that @Odetshki made about not playing from the start is very valid. I hadn't really considered that. And yes, auror is fragile but I do like it for a quicker fight. The fproblem is four consecutive hits from a dragon.


    @Drakonite Interestingly, your interpretation is the opposite of what I meant. I am a professor first, but also have the other two professions. I am still a professor. I just mean that different professions have different skills for different situations. It is an aspect of the game I find interesting rather than detracting. I don't particularly see it as professors being penalised.


    @Pangarban Again, I never said I don't care that professors are rubbish, because I don't believe professors are rubbish. I believe they have the perfect skill set for fortresses. Look, I much prefer to drive a car and love the protection it gives me, but here in Bangkok where you sit in traffic for 4 hours, I am going to drive a bike. It is about the right tools for the job. Now that we have so many red books, green books and scrolls, I find it hard to understand why (for early adopters of the game) it is such a dealbreaker, this professor thing.


    Sorry, this is a random tag for a paragraph I deleted, but I can't delete the tag. @Drakonite

  • DrakoniteDrakonite Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭
    #1319 January, 2021, 02:46 pm.

    cool

  • MorganzaMorganza Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
    #1421 January, 2021, 05:48 am.

    I did my first Ironbelly today. It was so tedious, so boring, so much repetitive strain on my hand, so much time spent watching the drawn-out fire-breathing animations over and over again, that I was seriously considering using one of my scarce Potent Exstimulos just to get it over with faster.


    The current Adversaries take so much more time and energy for Professors than other classes, I don't want to think what the Lethals will be like.

  • ZoGarthZoGarth Posts: 30 ✭✭
    #1524 January, 2021, 03:21 pm.

    Being a level 55 Professor(I just made the connection- In December I made 55th level and also turned 55...lol). That said I always have to use 1-2 potions to win against the main Adversary, and against the higher bosses fights, potions are required even for the henchmen before the main boss. Some fights I can use 5+ potions from healing to Exstimulos (Potent for the Main event, lesser ones for the henchmen). Worse, the higher ones use Traces so small and so fast that I miss opportunity after opportunity to connect due to old man hands (I feel sorry for people that have even worse dexterity issues). Too help, I have moved away from my SOS plans and have used "My Precious" books I was saving and have instead invested in Advanced Adversarial Combat defense and offense sides all the way up to Accuracy against Lethals. But, for me the 50% chance to for success definitely doesn't appear to the be 50% more like 30ish% in most fights. Also people... If chose to I invest in the next tier shouldn't Accuracy be back compatible to be used with the Feared? It would definitely help in those later battles, especially at the cost in time and books it will entail! Finally, with the cost of potions I'm using to defeat the higher Feared challenges', I currently don't see how I can ever be successful against Lethal Adversaries.

  • HypnoticMichaelHypnoticMichael Posts: 71 ✭✭✭
    #1609 February, 2021, 08:30 am.

    @Magpie31 I understand your perspective regarding choosing another path, although casual players as well as newcomers would suffer for this. Taking your bike example: presuming you’re a decent law-abiding citizen, if the law now changed so that you had to sit in your place in the traffic irrespective of your chosen vehicle, on a rainy day or for safety reasons you might be especially inclined to choose the car instead. What’s happened here by analogy however is that having chosen the bike, the authorities have not only changed the law but taken your car away as well leaving you only with the bike.


    The other aspect I think is worth considering is the SOS Tree gaslighting debacle. Yes, to invest in that tree was a decision arrived at by the individual player where they so chose, but such decisions in many cases may have been based (generously) on some “unfortunate inaccuracies” in the information that was provided to the players at the time.

  • DrakoniteDrakonite Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭
    #1709 February, 2021, 09:31 am.

    no, what's happened here is theyve taken away the car and made it rain b/c they control the weather, and the only way to take back the car is to get each part every 2 weeks and try to reassemble it piece by piece w/o being able to buy a new (or used) car. By doing this the devs are only making sure that if professors could pay gold to undo professor trees they could and when/if ppl can farm rsbs forts will become void of professors. The game is imbalanced outside of forts, and we must have rain or crops will die, but we must have snow and sunshine and everything else and authorities that have no compassion find themselves overthrown.

  • HypnoticMichaelHypnoticMichael Posts: 71 ✭✭✭
    #1810 February, 2021, 01:32 am.

    I have a tough time finding a way to disagree with your comment about the weather and trying to get a car back. The analogy runs deeper than I first thought, and it’s not pretty reading!

  • HalloMamiHalloMami Posts: 82 ✭✭✭
    #1911 February, 2021, 08:55 am.

    First up, I'm a Magizoolgist and was able to skill the 8 cheapest nodes in the advanced training. For me the adversaries are not challenging but tedious and boring, so I don't really have a stake in this w.r.t. professors.

     

    @Magpie31: Well, effectively you are saying that everybody starting to play the game now should become Auror (or maybe Magizoolgist), because all professions have pros and cons in fortresses but profs are not as good vs. adversaries, so....

     

    Re: I don't see it as a "poor professor" but rather something that we sort of vaguely knew when we chose to become professors, and

    now have the resources to compensate for it if we wish, rather than a developer mistake or oversight.

     

    I guess most players don't even realize that the different professions actually behave differently against oddities and now adversaries.

    There are a lot of game mechanics that are not too obvious in something apparently simple as oddities fights. And I don't think that this was on anybodies mind when picking their first profession, really.


    Secondly, just because some players have the resources to learn a second profession, doesn't mean that the imbalance is not an oversight by the developers. I'm pretty sure that they either did not realize this or didn't care. The advanced combat training trees are a strong indication for that because they seem to be the same for all classes (which looks hard like they ran out of budget for this feature). Apart from being terribly boring and uninspiring it is also a bad look if the professions have different capabilities at the get-go.

     

    About the "didn't care" option: It's not like in other RPGs all classes are the same in all aspects of the game. Like, farming stuff

    might be easier for some classes than others. So, this might actually have been a conscious decision....

  • HypnoticMichaelHypnoticMichael Posts: 71 ✭✭✭
    #2012 February, 2021, 01:21 pm.

    @HalloMami agree with your thoughts, and very well articulated. The advanced training tree was exactly where to address the underlying imbalance that the new features presented (if it was felt that the underlying capabilities of each class were correctly balanced for the rest of the game), and as you’ve clearly thought through, the “one-size-fits-all” doesn’t work with the different baselines. Perhaps as you’ve suggested the team

    simply got lazy or ran out of resource to be able to finish the job properly.

  • HypnoticMichaelHypnoticMichael Posts: 71 ✭✭✭
    #2112 February, 2021, 01:27 pm.

    It’s been suggested that profs will be pleasantly surprised when lethal adversaries enter the fray. I’m not counting on this!

  • VanFanel842VanFanel842 Posts: 35 ✭✭
    #2212 February, 2021, 03:33 pm.

    While I agree, it's good to have some professions better in some areas and worse in others because that's how you design a game, it's pretty bad if any aspect of the game relies on all profession membership AND one of those professions is so bad in a large part of the game. You cannot claim professor is worth investing in for most new players due to oddities and adversaries. There is just not enough spell energy or time in the day to waste. It's only the gluttons for punishment who enjoy tedious things that do it.


    If lesson plan 2 comes out and professors still are horrible and we stop playing, who's going to play as professor in fortresses? Only the daily grinders who manage to continue to max all professions?

  • PangarbanPangarban Posts: 25 ✭✭
    #2312 February, 2021, 03:56 pm.

    I've taken the decision to start training my Auror skills, even though I've completed the entire Advanced Adversary training for Professor. By around May or so I will be able to complete the main Auror tree, and hopefully in the meanwhile I will have collected enough DADA and red spell books to do most of the Advanced Adversary training for Auror as well.


    If a new player was to ask me which profession to train, I would answer "anything but Professor".

  • HypnoticMichaelHypnoticMichael Posts: 71 ✭✭✭
    #2415 February, 2021, 04:16 am.

    I agree with both above posts, it would be vindictive to suggest any new player choose professor, and this should in time simply lead to a shortage of them.


    On the other hand, keeping balanced population levels helps with fortressing* and the only levers the devs can pull to move population levels are to discourage/encourage play in the different professions, e.g. nerfs and costs where you want less players.


    On the third hand (!!!) that could be affording too much credit where the imbalance is a simple error.


    * that’s not a straight 1:1:1 because the chambers only admit 5 (not divisible by 3, into an integer at least) and my personal experience is, all things being equal (RNG for spawns), ending up with 3 aurors is better than having 3 profs!

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